richard Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 One thing that I would say in support of Bryson, is that when I was at LAMDA we had a good mixture of brand new kit (Source 4's, movers, SLs etc) as well as all the old rubbish (264s, sils, 743s (which are great), 243s .....) which meant that we got experience of maintaining them, and how to focus things that don't lock properly, may not be so much fun to play with, but is great experience for most regional theatres! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 I'm also studying at CSSD (Technical Stage Management). We've just completed a unit in which, for the first time, Production LX and Lighting Design have been working together, and with the rest of us. I have to say, from my point of view, all of our Lighting Designers seem incredibly competent in Production Electrics as well as design. They were present in the fit up and rig, and were able to advise the rest of us to the same extent as the Production LX. I would guess that the quality of intake of the Lighting Designers at Central is high, and they understand that to be really good Designers they also need to be able to work with production. A slightly different view to Ben - sorry to disagree but this is an outsiders view! Rachel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryson Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Looks like I've offended someone.... What I meant by my (intentionally flippant) comment was that the people I have met who have graduated from the LIPA course (About 5 people) were a bit over-obsessed with the nicer end of the kit market...and a little phased by having to work with the cheaper, older kit that is pretty prevalent in "the real world." Perhaps I've just been unlucky, but it did seem that patts and the like weren't encountered on the LIPA course. If I'm wrong, I stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lightnix Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Coming in a bit late here, but I'm firmly with the "walk before you can run" school of thought. Comments like... Also there is, for the best lighting designers, no need to know how to rig a lantern and a good production LX should be able to work out how the design will work for himself without having to have it shown to him by athe LD. ...are so far wide of the mark it's untrue. Still, that's why people go to college, to learn better ;) Gareth's remarks about car building are spot on, strangely enough I've often compared lighting with various aspects of the automotive industry - there are some very good parallels to be drawn there. As for Prod LXs being able to work out how the design will work... well OK, you may be able to see what a particular piece of kit is there for from the plan, but how it will work as a part of the design is another matter. Sure, any competent LX will be able to "see" something of what the LD is trying to do from a good plan, but if the LD doesn't have a sound technical background, the plan may well wind up being worthless. I don't think Ben was completely wrong there, he just didn't express himself very well. You just have to know what the kit is for and what it does before you can use it effectively. And as for fancy, up to date kit: again if you don't know how to use it to it's best (not necessarily maximum) effect then you don't really know how to use it. As I've said before: just because you have the latest camera, with all the bells and whistles doesn't mean you'll take good pictures. And 743s ? aahhhhhhh :D I'll miss them... Makes you wonder what happened to Strand and the simple art of designing decent lanterns. T-spots ??? :o :( :D I can't believe people are still being made to suffer those piles of <_< :D :D :huh: PS AT LAST !!! I'VE FINALLY USED THAT PINK SMILEY ! :D :D :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lightnix Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 And another thing... Lighting Design Rule No. 94The plan is only a guide. This applies equally to many other areas of the business, indeed to life in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 well, as said above I didn treally express myself very well and it has become evident since that others think the same so just wanted to say sorry if I offended anyone.Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickLee Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 T-spots ??? :huh: :P :D I can't believe people are still being made to suffer those piles of <_< :D :D :DMy local theatre has 8 of these buggers, and each has different output characteristics, it seems, despite being the same model; each has different gels in to "standardise" their light output as far as possible. They're horrendous lanterns, but, unfortunately, you have to make do with what you've got. Now there is a good lesson in lighting design... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 My local theatre has 8 of these buggers, and each has different output characteristics, it seems, despite being the same model; each has different gels in to "standardise" their light output as far as possible.8?! (Cue Monty Python Quote) "You Lucky Bastard!" What I'd give to only have 8 left... we've got something like 40 - 50 still kicking around. And when I say kicking around, I mean on rig and being used on a constant basis! Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 And 743s? Makes you wonder what happened to Strand and the simple art of designing decent lanterns.Ah, someone else thinks along the same lines as me. Where did it all go wrong?! <_< Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 ... we've got something like 40 - 50 still kicking around....or being kicked around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 ... we've got something like 40 - 50 still kicking around....or being kicked around? Believe me I'm trying to edge them slowly into Poole Harbour... Plan doesn't seem to be working at the mo, so a radical rethink methinks. <_< Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wibble Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Looks like I've offended someone.... the people I have met who have graduated from the LIPA course (About 5 people) were a bit over-obsessed with the nicer end of the kit market...and a little phased by having to work with the cheaper, older kit that is pretty prevalent in "the real world."Tis OK Mr Bryson sir, I'm not really offended, but you do touch on a little bit of a sore point - it's students who seem to create the image of the institution, and the simple fact that LIPA has some nice "toys" means that the students like to use them, indeed like students the world over they want to play with the nice things, and in our lovely consumer driven education market the students seem to get what they want... Despite the best intentions of us at the other end of the issue.. Oh, and for the record, LIPA does own a handful of PATTS, and the rest of the generic stock is all the standard kit, it's only "new" because it was only bought seven years ago.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris M Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 One point that scares me alot about Rose Bruford is that Lighting Designers seem to be the group that most easily adapt to other jobs. Most of the current 2nd years have had a reasonable experience with Stage Management in the past, and a few of us have done sound things. But we get taught quite abit about sound editing. But Stagemanagement have no idea how to open up AutoCAD for instance. And they barely know how to programme a cue on lighting desks. You complain about LD's not knowing about the jobs that aid thier design, we do. And we can do jobs of others as well when we come out of Rose Bruford. I think a main issue here is the design course, have no idea how to rig a lanter or how to stage manage, and the stage managers who get taught very very very absolute basic lighting and sound. But the LD's actually get taught a resonable amount about everything in theatre. The other courses are way to specific, not lighting!! For stage management, a good lighting knowledge is essesential, as they will probably have to end up operating a show at some point, and I dont know if any Rose Bruford SM's could ? And the designers can never really understand how lighting can alter their set unless they do some lighting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James C Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 Chris, While I take your point about some Rose Bruford Courses being very specific to their discipline, I have to say that the Rose Bruford Students (and Graduates) I have come across are, as well as being very finely crafted stage managers, very good at adapting. Those that I have worked with have been very quick to pick up a basic grounding in lighting & sound (enough to stage manage a small-scale tour to schools & venues, doing the relights and setting up/operating the sound system in schools fresh from college). Whether it is the quality of the students or the mindset that influences them at the college, I don't know (I assume a bit of both), but sending students out into the world with a very sound understanding of their own discipline, and a profound ability & willingness to adapt when learning new tricks doesn't seem such a bad way to go (I can't speak for the lighting designers, I'm afraid, as I haven't come across any that I know of, but felt that the stage managers and Stage management course was being treated a bit harshly here.I should point out that I am neither a graduate of Rose Bruford, nor am I employed by them in any way, so really have no axe to grind here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris M Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 I am not having a go at Stage management, I am just concerned that they are great Stage Managers, but seem to have no idea of other disciplines and how we work.They learn text book Stage Management, however they dont seem to understand that Lighting doesnt really work from textbooks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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