Drum Shields

[pisquee]

If the performance has to be seen properly, then screens are out, aren't they?

 

If the show is produced from the start with the screen as a part of the production, and the lighting guy knows how to light around, through it, without glare, and the screen is well looked after, handled with gloves, cleaned properly etc, there is no reason why it should affect anything being seen properly.

[kiwichristian]

Well drummers already sit behind a huge screen of drums, so a bit of perspex isn't much of a problem. I have no problem with any musician including a singer being behind a screen - happens in the studio all the time, live performance wise, then the visual element is important - sometimes more important than the sound. If the performance has to be seen properly, then screens are out, aren't they?

 

I don’t feel it’s fair to say that drummers sit behind a 'screen of drums'. Would you call Ringo Starr's kit a 'screen of drums'?

Only a select few sit behind giant kits which may make it hard to seem them, but that is there instrument, the drum screen is not an instrument.

 

A grand piano (with its lid up) covers most if not all of the pianist, would you put him behind a screen?

Or more to the question, would he sit behind one?

[Rob_Beech]

I don't think you've looked at the reasons why we use screens, we don't use them so you can't see the drummer. We'd sooner not use them, its one less thing to carry and setup.

 

Rob

[paulears]

If people want to be seen on stage then they sing, or play guitar. Ignoring 'Keytars' or 'Guitboards', people at pianos are bottom half masked at least and multi keys players usually have a bit of leg, and top chest and head visible. Drummers can't really even move their top halfs, and at best are top chest and head only. My screen of drums comment relates to the fact that even a modest drum kit has toms in front. In fact, last night's show had the drummer place his music stand on top of the two toms, making only his head visible to the audience.

 

Perspex screens, can be a nice contained area for internal lighting, making for some nice reflection effects. The drums themselves take light well, it's just that the drummer is frequently just a moving 'blob behind nice colourful shells and hardware.

[Mr.Si]

And now with the 2 year delayed start of the CONAW in the music industry coming close (which I was reminded about by this month's L&Si article), the noise exposure for each of the musicians and all the crew too, especially those near or on the stage will likely need to be protected from being exposed to the noise levels they blatantly produce by their instruments.

 

So the use of them, along with hearing protection (which they REALLY should wear already anyway) may be more common place in order to help reduce the overall stage sound/noise and protect the others.

 

Yes the drummer may also have to learn to play quietly, but that's not always going to work is it? I mean, a Heavy Metal Band were there's cymbal and snare chaos and just loud drummage isn't going to work if the drummer suddenly has to start hitting their drums softly. It'd turn into Lead (as in the soft malleable metal).

It's like in Jools Holland's band, all the brass section, or at least just the trumpets are behind small perspex screens to protect those in front.

[paulears]

A heavy metal drummer playing quietly is about as useful as a guy digging up the road with a rubber pneumatic drill.

[bigglesuk]

A heavy metal drummer playing quietly is about as useful as a guy digging up the road with a rubber pneumatic drill.

 

Given the current hot weather I think the drill would melt into the tarmac!

 

Back on a serious note. After discussions today it looks as though we will use drums screens for a couple of weeks next month. This will coincide with us measuring the LEQ for the duration of the meeting. We will also measure the LEQ for a couple of weeks without the screens for comparison. It will be interesting to see how much of a difference it makes. I will also take readings of the on-stage levels to see how much that comes down. I'll let people know how it goes and what type of difference it all makes.

 

Anyway, I'm off to watch the Simpsons movie.....

 

Adam

[Matt Riley]

Just to add another comment into the discussion, I think it's important to look at why drum screens are used. Where I come from it's often as an alternative to vdrums which enables the audience (or congregation) to appreciate the benefits of vdrums while still respecting the desire of the drummer to play 'real drums.'

 

M

[Mr.Si]

A heavy metal drummer playing quietly is about as useful as a guy digging up the road with a rubber pneumatic drill.

 

Exactly.

 

 

This will coincide with us measuring the LEQ for the duration of the meeting. We will also measure the LEQ for a couple of weeks without the screens for comparison. It will be interesting to see how much of a difference it makes. I will also take readings of the on-stage levels to see how much that comes down. I'll let people know how it goes and what type of difference it all makes.

 

Oooh what meter do you have? (Acoustician P :) rn!!)

 

Let us know the Parameters you use too. Z/A/C (<sarcasm>because C weighting would be useful... :D </sarcasm> ) and Fast/Slow/Peak etc.

I'd personally use A and Fast. oooh and if you can, do it 1/3rd Octave Band if the meter can handle that. I like to see frequency spectrums.

[bigglesuk]

Oooh what meter do you have? (Acoustician P :) rn!!)

 

Let us know the Parameters you use too. Z/A/C (<sarcasm>because C weighting would be useful... :D </sarcasm> ) and Fast/Slow/Peak etc.

I'd personally use A and Fast. oooh and if you can, do it 1/3rd Octave Band if the meter can handle that. I like to see frequency spectrums.

Well, it would probably be an NTI Acoustilizer. A Blue Roomer has one that I might be using for the task, normally we have a little Radioshack one which does the basic job. I'm looking forward to seeing the results as I'm still trying to teach myself more about acoustics.

 

Adam

[kiwichristian]

A heavy metal drummer playing quietly is about as useful as a guy digging up the road with a rubber pneumatic drill.

 

Name one heavy metal band that used a drum screen.

The answer is Zero!

 

How much heavy metal is played in church?

Again, Zero!

 

If you turned up at a metal gig and there was a drummer trying to use a drum screen, he would be laughed off stage.

 

Also Mr.Si pointed out “Yes the drummer may also have to learn to play quietly, but that's not always going to work is it?”

The answer to that question is Yes, it will.

 

This is my point, a drum screen should not be considered as CHURCH + DRUMS = SCREEN scenario!

 

Real drummers are out there doing a fantastic job and they are not sitting behind screens. They are producing a better sound without screens (i.e. no reflective drum sound) they are interacting with the audience and most important are interaction with there band as they are and will always be the heart of there band.

 

Still, my questions remains unanswered, is it right to put any musician behind a barrier, clear or not.

[Mr.Si]

kiwichristian, it seems you missed my point and I feel you took my words out of context from my message.

 

[calm voice]

You sound like you're getting angrier and angrier while you seem to have a closed mind on the answer which you think is correct.

You keep talking about church and drums with screens, but we've been talking about in general, not just church scenarios.

 

Drummergirl from my church has recently been begging me to put her behind a screen, 'cause she otherwise feels like she has to hold back from hitting the drums at any volume. They sound fine but she would like, on occasion, to actually go behind my screen, be mic'd up and HIT the drums without feeling exposed. It is also a nicely tuned kit and she's a great drummer.

 

It also seems I'm rising to the bait. :D

 

[/calm voice]

 

 

Oooh I wonder if Sarah Rushton Reed (Did I spell that right?) will use this topic in one of her "what's happing in cyberspace" articles in L&Si.

[paulears]

What's the fuss about? The OP wanted pros and cons on the use of drum screens, and we've done our usual meander using peoples own experiences.

 

Drum screens from my own experience have nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of the drummer - they are simply a solution to a loud instrument on stage, (or in the studio) near to instruments that are less loud and are miked up (or maybe trying to cut through with a natural, unamplified ambient sound).

 

I've had some good experiences with them in a number of cases - and not involving heavy metal either - in my case, big band music. The drums aren't over loud, for the genre, but I have lots of open mics all over, and screening the drums takes away loads of spill and tightens the whole thing up without resorting to gates that never seem natural for this kind of music.

 

Kiwi seems to haven taken a few chunks (mine included) and distorted the context they were posted in. Heavy metal drumming doesn't need screens, I think we all agree there - the point some of us were making was that solutions to spill that involve the drummer changing their playing technique change the sound, and don't normally work in live situations where a characteristic sound is required.

 

In some circumstances and I guess church may well be one (I don't know, because I don't do that kind of thing), then screens can reduce on stage volume, making control easier - again, is there a problem with this?

 

We have given the OP plenty of material to think about. That, I assume, is the purpose.

[boswell]

From a different angle, I know very little about acoustics (I have enough trouble spelling it :D ) but instead of 12mm solid polycarb, would the 25 or 16mm triwall polycarb used for roofing be much use? Its cheaper & lighter

[Simon Lewis]

...would the 25 or 16mm triwall polycarb used for roofing be much use? Its cheaper & lighter

 

No, although it's a slight generalisation, you need mass to stop sound being transmitted through a barrier. Using a lighter construction plastic would not afford as much attenuation and the the thicker polycarbonate or Perspex.