rigging kit

[Rich newby]

That's what they Are there for, they would not add them if it was not safe! Providing that you always use both together there is no problem.

[MikeR]

I personally use a high end budget rock climbing Harnesses

 

Can something be both high end and budget simultaneously? It rather reminds me of the old adage about wanting quick, cheap & quality. You can have any 2 but not all 3.

[Pete]

Have to agree,LX bars IWB's etc aren't there for clipping on to!

I think this thread might be worth a read for the OP

[Pete McCrea]

That's what they Are there for, they would not add them if it was not safe! Providing that you always use both together there is no problem.

 

From the instructions for the Petzl Navaho Complet:

The chest and back points are rated for Fall Arrest (EN361). The side points are rated for work Posistioning (EN358). The side points ARE NOT FOR FALL ARREST.

 

So if your working on a taut line with a work positioning systems, then the side points are fine. They should not be used with a loose lanyard. Your harness may be different, however I seriously suggest that you read, re-read and understand fully the instructions for you harness.

 

Sorry if I'm coming accros as harsh- I'm keen to make sure that people fully understand what they are doing. I fear a lot of people use harnesses incorrectly (Indeed I see it regularly in various people who ought to know better). Clipping onto an IWB with a loose lanyard to the side point of a harness is not right. If you fell there would be no shock absorbing. You may break your back as the harness pulls you in the middle of your body. Then the IWB would come down...

 

RTF people, then do the training.

[Rich newby]

Im not showing off or anything but I have been using harnesses and high rope systems almost all my life. On your petzl harness are the points connected to a separate belt, or all connected directly to the harness?

 

However I have not done the training course, so I will bow to Superior knowledge.

[Nick Evans]

Hip rings on harnesses are for work placement not fall arrest. It is nothing to do with the security of the fixture, rather how it would apply the load to your body if you fell. The only way I know to use hip rings is in conjunction with a pole strap, so that the harness is balanced i.e. with equal force being applied to either side.

 

Rock climbing harnesses are not suitable for work because that is not the purpose for which they were designed. PPE must be fit for purpose, that is to say doing the job it was designed to do in the environment it was designed to work in.

[Sgt_Detrius]

I always use my rock climbing harness and a few slings when im up a ladder (volunteer in local theater) simply because it does the job and it's all I've got...and the theater admin seems to think I like heights.hmm.

Stops a fall but I'd prefer to avoid ladders full stop!

[Pete]

I always use my rock climbing harness and a few slings when im up a ladder (volunteer in local theater) simply because it does the job and it's all I've got...and the theater admin doesnt really give a monkeys and thinks I like heights.hmm.

Stops a fall but I'd prefer to avoid ladders full stop!

 

 

Please read what everyone before you has said!.

What your doing isnt right,Im also willing to bet that while up ladder using the slings that your not clipped on to a suitable point.

 

We need a Big Chris Higgs finger waving smiley I think!

[J Pearce]

You're probably safer falling then being caught by an inadequate suspension system, particularly if that then pulls the grid down on top of you!

[Sam_Lowers]

hi guys

 

cheers for all the feed back

 

I'm glad that so many people have taken part in this discussion and I feel that I have personally learnt a lot.

 

just 1 question.

 

I went to see blink 182 at the CIA back in December 2004

 

when it came to a certain time two wire ladders were dropped in and 4 guys climbed them to their spot chairs. they were wearing (what seemed to be) black webbed waist harnesses - that did look like climbing harnesses.

 

they were leashed onto a stop system on a vertical cable and then once at the top and in the truss transferred onto a horizontal safety line running just above the truss.

 

just wondering if this was the right way to do it and whether, because they weren't rigging, if waist harnesses were acceptable?

 

sam

[Pete McCrea]

I'd be very surprised if they weren't in the all black version of the Navaho, which has black straps for the upper body, or simillar from another manufacturer.

 

As you can see from the image, all the points (Side 'Lateral', Waist 'Ventral', front 'Sternal' and rear 'Dorsal' point) are all integral to the harness.

 

The lateral points are for work positioning only, where there "Must be a supporting surface for the feet". The ventral point must only be used for work positioning where a fall would only be less than 0.5m.

 

This Link from Petzl shows the 'Hierachy of Risk', and is worth a read.

[flypig]

Just a bit of extra info for you Sam. First, invest in a good full body harness and safety lanyard, it's worth it not to spend your life in a wheelchair (God forbid).

 

I use a Navaho with a recovery lanyard attached to the chest ring. I made the lanyard up myself from 2.4m length of 10.5mm braided rope with a GriGri (you must learn how to use one of these first). one end of the rope is fixed to a captured eye caribiner with a figure eight knot and the other end has a double overhand stopper knot (both shown here ).

 

DO NOT USE THIS BIT OF GEAR UNTIL YOU KNOW HOW TO USE IT PROPERLY - your local rock climbing school / wall would be a very good start.

 

I have had a few hairy situations on wet scaff and oily trusses where this particular piece of gear saved some nasty potential injuries.

 

I would also add that I made this particular piece of gear because I know what I'm doing and I'm quite comfortable using it. I would advise you to buy a ready made item from a good safety supplier until you are happy about your expertise.

 

Good luck and stay safe.

[Rich newby]

Hi

I did have a perfect post written out, but then I pushed something and went back to the home page! So ill sum up what I said it the deleted post.

 

I would very very strongly recommend against using GriGris(shiver). At my local climbing wall (sunderland wall, the 2nd largest climbing centre in Europe) They have been banned. Because of a variety of accidents and broken bones. However the main story is this;

 

A Guy was just finishing his climb to the highest wall, 150ft up, he placed his hands onto the rope and Lent back to be lowered down, the belay device in question was a Petzl GriGri, The be layer at the bottom kept the grigri locked so that he could get into a proper position, and just as he was ready to be lowered, the device failed. The rope travelling through the device slowed him down enough not to kill him, but he was in a full body cast for about 4 months.

 

A sharp reminder of more complicated gear.

 

I do also use a fall arrest strap with the captured eye carabiners at each end, pretty nice carabiners and easy to use.

 

Last point that I would make is about the knots, I would reccomend going to your climbing wall and getting one of the instructers to tie one for you, I can now tie a figure of 8 blindfolded, and it only took me 8 years to learn! The main reason im saying this is that you should always double back on the 8 and tie a stopper knot at the top, not the way the above link shows. It should look like this.

 

Cheers

Rich

[AndrewR]

Would be interesting to know what the reason was for the failure of the grigri.

Seems very odd that the device would fail doing the job it was designed (and certified to the relevant standards) to do.

That said, if used incorrectly, or not regularly inspected anything can fail.

 

 

I have used grigri's on many occasions for belaying on one of a very large company's many rock walls (as an employee) and whilst they are (in my experience) very good for belaying, I wouldn't use them for rigging safety, its just too easy to get the rope away from the correct positioning (which can result in accelerated wear on the important parts, and greatly increases the risk of it failing to lock).

 

There are better arresting devices out there. After all, a grigri is designed to have another person operating it at all times to keep you safe

 

I'm considering my choice of equipment at the moment, my employer has provided some of the sub 50 pound harness's. Some of my co-workers have had the relevant (fall pack) training. But I dont like the idea of a harness that according to the man training my co-workers, gives you the option of being rescued in 20 mins, or death (suspension trauma). If I end up using fall arrest gear in anger, I dont want to be worrying if people can get to me in time to save me, or my legs.

I think that for around 150, I will be getting a full-body rigging harness. (probably a navaho)

[Rich newby]

GriGris are now known for failing and are becoming banned in many places now. It is mainly because the work on compression to stop the rope, instead of teeth on something like an accender. The reason that they are still selling them is that they expect people to use them as a normal belay device, which seems to me a large waste of money. The fact that they appear to hold the rope is the main reason why people go 'hands free' so to speak! A good test for a gri gri is to hand a rope vertically, clamp your grigri onto the rope, get up a little distance off the floor and clip onto the grigri, then sit in your harness and you should slowly feel yourself slipping down the rope until you touch the floor, this just proves that they don't hold the rope!

 

Cheers

Rich