dbuckley Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 A while ago whilst surfing I came across The Onstage performer by playware Innovations. I have no experience of this product, but it just stuck in the brain. It basically does a bit of what a sequencer does, plays a stereo audio track, and enables MIDI event syncronisation to happen along with it. I doubt it's PPQN type accurate, but it doesnt need to be to switch effects units and/or lights. It doesnt have any inbuilt audio effects, despite tryimg to give that impression. If you still want to use effects, then have a look at something like JP Console or Chainer both of which are MIDI controlled, but frankly, a stand-alone effects unit (even a diret cheap one) will have lower latency and less hassle. if you are absolutely wedded to VST effects then there are hardware hosts available (PlugZilla and Receptor) which are alledgedly rather good, but both are f.expensive. where "f" may or may not be "fairly" :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 As with some others I can't give you a definitive answer because I use different software (I have Sonar 3 like you but pair it with Audition 2.0). However, my instict is that you're asking for problems trying to do a Sonar playback and vocal effects on the same PC at the same time. Maybe it will work...or maybe your computer will have a nervous breakdown at the wrong moment. My money would be on the technology messing you up every time! All things being equal, I'd probably use the computer for playback and get a hardware processor for the vocals. However, since this would mean money, maybe you could come at this the other way round. Export the backing tracks from Sonar and play them back off CD, then devote your computer exclusively to the vocal effects. Exporting files from Sonar is relatively easy, but can take a couple of forms depending on how your work is stored. If and midi you've included uses a software synth (like the VSC included with Sonar) you should be able to use the "Export Audio" command under the file menu. If you've used other forms of midi you will likely find that command greyed out and have to play back your files in real time and record them as waves either in Sonar or another application. Set this up using the PC mixer and selecting MIDI on the Record side. Once stored as a wave file, you can burn to CD like any other file. Having done this, it should be relatively easy to play back the CD using any handy deck. Then you can use the computer just to do the vocal effect. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParryMatthews Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Export the backing tracks from Sonar and play them back off CD, then devote your computer exclusively to the vocal effects.Yes I was thinking about the cd option. At the moment I'm playing back the backing track either with Sound Forge or Winamp.I can do this and get live effects on the vocals but I don't know how I would change the effects after 4 mins then again after 9 mins etc etc. Maybe I could have a track of silence in Ableton that's the same length as the backing track with the effects automated at the right points. The only downside would be starting the 2 programs (or 1 program and 1 cd) at once manually and getting the timing spot on. I think this could work crudely but I was hoping to be a bit more exact. :) Excessive quote snipped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Now you're onto more familiar territory. Playing back a MP3 or WAV file reliably whilst generating MIDI commands is the stock in trade of theatre audio and show control systems, and these systems get discussed here with regular monotony. Of the packages that get discussed, three of them are perfectly suited to what you want to do, SFX, PCStage. and SCS The basic principle of them is that you have a "cuelist", which is a bit like a spreadsheet, its a series of events, but they go vertically, unlike the horizontal scroll of the music production software you're used to. The cue list contains commands, such as "play misty.wav", and MIDI commands, which can control your stuff, and have concepts like "at 15.3 seconds after this cuelist event do the next cuelist event". So for each song it starts the track, and then issues MIDI commands to your effects gear at the correct intervals you program in. When the events for a track are done you can then either automatically step onto the next, with a time delay if necessary, or hit a key on the computer, or use a MIDI foot controller to start the next track. Each of these packages has its supporters, but to be honest all will do what you want to do, its just which one you fancy the look, feel, and price of. The best comparitive review is still the one I wrote :) in this thread. But as your needs are fairly basic, any of them will do, and despite being a big fan and user of PCStage, my guess is that SCS would be the best for your application, but you would need the professional version to drive MIDI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParryMatthews Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Ok I've downloaded and installed PCStage and it looks like it's gonna take a bit of getting my head round. Do you know of any sites that have tutorials or simple "how to's" rather than me having to wade through the help files? :) - FWIW there's no need to go to all that trouble quoting the entire previous post - we only just read it :( :) Oh dear.My usual forum, http://www.brfcforum.co.uk/index.php?act=idx isn't quite as strict but I think I'm getting the hang of it now. Sorry for being a plank! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 ... PCStage ... tutorials or simple "how to's" rather than me having to wade through the help files? Sadly not, but feel free to look at my crazies page http://www.davidbuckley.name/pcs, there are some examples and pictures there, try downloading the show control example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambone Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I use Ableton Live to run my quad audio, lighting, and video. I guess it's the same as cuelists, as I can launch any and all combinations of beat-matched and synched audio, lighting, and video with any and all manner of MIDI controllers or computer keyboard. Live's "Follow Actions" is particularly useful, as you can launch entire sequences, including controlled randomization. I'm running 100+ audio and MIDI tracks without a hitch. I second the digital mixer route. Don't try to do everything in software. I use a Yamaha 01V and powered PA, which works brilliantly with Live and mLAN as an 8-in/8-out audio interface. Once your tracks are warp-markered in Live, you can play them at virtually any tempo without any noticeable loss of quality. Make sure you're using Live's "Complex" mode when playing back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Woodford Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 I'm a logic user and that has really good automation although a bit pricey. I like the idea of what you want to achieve. What you're asking can be done but per myprevious post - how much latency is there in running your vocal through the laptop have you tried it and can you live with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParryMatthews Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 I'm a logic user....No real latency to speak of. I can play the backing track through Ableton and sing along with it, with effects and everything's fine. I'm finding though, that if I automate the effects, they only change if the track isn't armed, so switching the vocal off!!I feel really close to a solution but just not quite there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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