Stage Magazine

[gareth]

 

'Nuff said.

 

Whatever you say.. :D

A good example of the sort of "I'm only a schoolboy but I know best" attitude that Paul and others were describing, really. QED.

[Priest]

Every member of our crew is OH&S trained. (Link We take care of our equiptment and the people who operate it. I was just sick of people saying that just because of our age, we don't know what we are doing.

 

 

 

'Nuff said.

 

Whatever you say.. :D

A good example of the sort of "I'm only a schoolboy but I know best" attitude that Paul and others were describing, really. QED.

 

 

I never said I knew best. I was simply saying that I know more than any of the teachers at my school. I never said that I could do the job better than any of you or someone who is paid for it.

[gareth]

I never said I knew best. I was simply saying that I know more than any of the teachers at my school. I never said that I could do the job better than any of you or someone who is paid for it.

No, you didn't specifically say that - but the slight overtone of sarcasm to what you wrote, coupled with your decision to put a "rolling eyes" smiley at the end of it, conveyed your feelings pretty well.

 

The course at the end of the link you posted is interesting - it's admirable that the school have seen fit to send you on such a course with a view to increasing your H&S awareness, but it's a hell of a lot to cover in a one-day course. It means that you can't have done more than scratch the surface of all the subjects covered. Access equipment and rules for working at height, fall arrest, rescue from height, manual handling, single and three-phase electrical theory, circuit protection, the language of stagecraft, H&S law - the basics of any one of those is a day's course on its own, so covering the whole gammut in one day must surely entail them being heavily condensed and summarised.

[PDD]

Every member of our crew is OH&S trained. (Link

Incidentally, Priest, where are you from? Your profile says England, but that company seems to be in Australia.

[Bobbsy]

Now that IS a generous school, sending all those students to Australia for Health and Safety training! Do they do a module on differences between Australian and British regulations?

 

Bob

[Just Some Bloke]

I'm quite sure, Priest, that you are good at what you do. I am also sure that you know more than your teachers about technical theatre. The points Paulears was making earlier had nothing to do with that.

 

He said:

 

When the brown stuff hits, you find the responsibility was just an illusion, and lets say, the problem is really serious ... [snip] - the poor person who is really in charge gets crucified. Staff in a school or college cannot legally pass on the responsibity to a student.

 

In other words, you can sall yourself Technical Manager for a production if you want to, but it doesn't make you one. Managers have huge responsibility. Students - LEGALLY - have virtually none. If anything goes wrong it is the fault of the person who should have been supervising you, no matter how good you are.

 

An example: recently I was taking a 2nd year BTec lighting class at a college. A very capable, quite experienced student went up a tallescope to rig some lights. When he got to the top of the ladder he didn't put the safety bar down which would have helped stop him from falling out of the cage. I told him to put the bar down. He explained it had a small break in it and he had decided that it would be better not to use it than it break fully while he was up there. At that point I had to tell him to come down and not let anyone use the tallescope until it was fixed by a qualifed expert. Had I not done so, I would have been jailed had anything gone wrong. Now I know and he knew that he was 98% sure not to fall out of the cage because he was experienced and sensible. But if that 2% chance had happened I would have been to blame. Had I not been there, he would have used the tallescope, under the impression that his risk assessment (better not to use the safety bar than to use it) was OK.

 

Paul's second point was simply this: if you you haven't been taught how to use the kit (because your teachers don't know) then how do you know you're using it properly? If I replaced a 13A fuse with a nail, I could make the smoke machine work. I could stand back and say "see, I know what I'm doing, becasue I got the smoke machine to work". It wouldn't be right to do so, though.

 

Many people on these boards know their jobs well because they've had training, experience and supervision. If you haven't had these you need to accept that and realise that they would all be useful. It's not your fault they haven't been provided, but there's more to being a theatre technician than just making the lighting and sound systems work.

 

Enjoy doing your lighting, sound and stage work. Do as much of it as you can, but don't forget there will always be more to learn, and that the teachers who are letting you get on with what you do, rather than stopping you because they don't know if it's safe or not, are putting a huge amount of trust in you. If anything goes wrong it is them who will pay the price. And, of course, the students next year who won't be allowed to do anything at all.

[Priest]

Every member of our crew is OH&S trained. (Link

Incidentally, Priest, where are you from? Your profile says England, but that company seems to be in Australia.

 

 

:unsure: From England just spent most of my life in Australia :P

[Rich newby]

Hi, I think that thinking your good at tech theatre is only 1/3 of it.

 

1/3 is personal opinion

1/3 is other peoples opinion of your show

1/3 is getting your reputation.

 

You need some evidence of how good you are. Alot of young members on here have spent a while building up a reputation, to show to others that even though we are young we are very serious about tech theatre. My personal evidence would be that I am only 14 yet I have been doing lighting and sound for 1/2 of my life. Even though I have only been on BR for less than a year. You may even find that some young members have been doing tech theatre for longer than the 18+ majority on here, however it is harder take stuff in when your young, so it will not be as obvious.

 

Rich

[Just Some Bloke]

Hi, I think that thinking your good at tech theatre is only 1/3 of it.

 

1/3 is personal opinion

1/3 is other peoples opinion of your show

1/3 is getting your reputation.

 

Going back to my example earlier that gives us:

 

1) personal opinion - "I fixed the smoke machine therefore I am great"

2) other people's opinion - "he fixed the smoke machine he's great"

3) reputation - "get him to fix your smoke machine, he's good at it."

 

Where does being right come in? Because actually he put a nail in place of the fuse.

[Stewart Newlands]

Still learning: I have been working with electrical equipment for 20 years since I left school, I have bits of paper that prove I have passed exams and assessments that go some way to prove I am competent, I have large collection of British standards, text books, equipment manuals and a bit of experience does this mean I know what I am doing?

 

Possibly; if you look at appendix 1 of BS7671 (the IEE Wiring Regs) it lists over 100 other standards have I read them all? no, do I need to? possibly.

 

Do I have a fair understanding of BS7671? I have passed an exam on them, I have completed other courses that suggest I have a knowledge of the maths, physics, chemistry involved in interpreting them, I work for a firm that is a member of electrical trade associations with inspection processes so I should have a reasonable chance of getting things right.

 

Do I need help working with electrical equipment and installations? All the time, no day or place is exactly the same as the last one or as yesterday.

 

Do other people know better? Yes, no matter how good you are someone will be better or see something you did not.

 

Am I competent to work in your building / site ? Not until I am familiar with it and have undergone any training that may be needed for that location at the times I may be working etc.

 

Can I drive tele forks or an HGV - NO

[Bobbsy]

Very nicely put, Stewart.

 

I think the biggest difference between the old and the young is that...

 

...the older I get, the more I realise I don't know and the less I'm convinced of my own invincibility.

 

Teenagers, on the other hand.....

 

Bob

[paulears]

Excellent post Stewart. You hit the nail on the head - you are as good as your experience. All the bits of paper and going on courses are just confirmation that you have reached a certain skill. I don't mean to keep singling out poor old Rich Newby, but he starts to say things that are on target then always shoots himself in the foot.

 

He's been doing lights and sound for seven years - great. He started doing lights and sound at 7? Having had plenty of experience of 7 year old sons, I'm not sure that it counts (sorry Rich, but you keep bringing it up)

 

I did my first show on follow spot at Rich's age now. Looking back, I was very keen, but nowhere near mature enough to understand the implications of what I did (as in walking accross an un-handrailed walkway above the auditorium with the light off by using my hands on the roof trusses to guide me). I learned huge amounts about the business and it kick-started me in an industry I'm still in - so it was amazingly useful. The trouble was I thought I was an expert (well, on Patt 93s) and if I'm honest, I suspect I too thought I really did know things that looking back, I obviously didn't.

 

 

The thing that worries me, and some others too, I think, is that age is very important. Even if you only look at the legal aspects, it is clear that in the UK people under the age of 18 are not considered responsible for their actions. Maybe this should be lowered, but personally, I don't think so. Any person at school or college who really believes they know more than their teacher, who at worst will be older and have a piece of paper that proves they have the ability to understand how people learn, is not on the right planet. It is perfectly possible that the teacher does not know DMX from BMX. They will appreciate it if you do. This does not mean, that you are better. Many people not just in this thread simply don't get it. They equate knowledge with power and importance.

 

In a school the drama teacher may have no technical knowledge at all. Given the choice between a grumpy caretaker or keen know a bit shoolboy who would you pick? From the teachers perspective manna from heaven. I got stuck with a college show once and it had huge costume issues. I knew one students mum was a dressmaker, so I gave her the title "costume mistress". She was so pleased that because she could do something I couldn't she walked with her head tall for weeks. The three teachers let her preen herself and walk about bossing people around because the alternative was either paying from our budget or learning to do it ourselves and we simply didn't want to. No doubt she told all her friends how we were useless and if it hadn't been for her the show would not have happened, all because she was good with needles and thread and sowing machines. "Paul must be useless, he doesn't even know how to thread a sowing machine." I don't, and to be honest aren't a tiny bit interested in learning. Does this sound familiar to all the "head of lighting and sound" people at school.

 

Finally, the backstage community revolves around mutual respect for each other. You don't even have to like the people you work with, but it helps. Without respect, however, it falls apart. I'll finish with an example. One of my old students was an expert on everything. Offering his opinion on every topic somehow having learnt everything in just a few years - often by almost memorising technical info. A very handy chap, but a pain. I only knew him from 16 but he did my head in. He did get us out of many holes, but in effect got abused by all the staff and students. At 18 we worked together for real - still did my head in, but gradually he matured - bit like cheese and wine. By the time he left he was a truly useful and pleasant bloke to be around, and, if pushed I'd have to say he's really difficult to replace. In fact, I'm quite happy to state that I'd now defer to him on many aspects of the business and have no problem asking him for advice. Wind the clock back a few years and he would probably have appeared on here as a new member if the BR had been about then!

[AndyJones]

 

'Nuff said.

 

Whatever you say..

 

AND

 

Priest: Thats the kind of attitude that's going to get you or someone around you seriously hurt when you're 'in charge' ......

typical schoolboy attitude that as well as potentially killing you/staff/students FUTURE STUDENTS is extremely selfish! If- god forbid- you blow some other student up, the staff member in charge could/ and probably WILL end up in jail.

 

On the other hand I think it's extremely irresponsible for that staff member to delegate a role he does not understand.

 

Just out of interest, if a student blows up another student by being "lighting boss" and the staff member in charge go's to jail, what happens to the student?

 

Sorry to jump back to that post-have been off BR for a couple of days due to workies so haven't had chance to add my 0.02c

Cheers

 

Andy

[mac.calder]

The student has to live with what they have done.

 

It is something that has been seen in the australian courts (at least) before - "child" (in the legal sense) does a job. "child" gets someone killed. "responsible adult" (again, legal speak for the adult in charge) is arrested, charged and escorted into a nice cell with bars. "child" lives out the remainder of their life knowing that they not only ruined one life but two because they thought they could do something they couldnt. Often the child is found a while later entering the early stages of riggor mortis.

 

All in all though, the argument is moot - The law is fairly clear on the age a person can accept full responsibility for their actions, and (IMO), a person cannot be 'head of x' or 'in charge of y' in the truest sense of the word until they reach that age. Before that age, the title is purely honorary and worth about as much as the paper a verbal contract is written on (that is to say nothing).

 

In Australia, that age is 16, with legal competency being 18...in the UK, it may be something different.

 

IMO - teachers of theatre/drama/whatever should be required to KNOW about (at least) the basics of lighting, sound, power, safety and rigging before they are aloud to teach in a theatre, and I believe that all students should be instructed about health and safety within the theatre before they are set loose in it - Hell, I know that for the five years I took general science, and the 2 years I took chemistry and physics we were taken through a miriad of health and safety work before we could do anything (often a weeks worth). I know for a FACT that our drama teacher thought that the control cable for our analogue lighting system was 3 phase power. I also know for a fact that nothing was PAT tested (which is an AU requirement). I further know that the SWL of 2 of the bars were exceded by the blacks that were permananty hung bunched up at either end because they could not find the legs. These are such simple things...Maybe things in the UK are different....

 

Although I may have known far more about lighting and sound than he did, and in fact many areas of theatre (he was an english teacher who loved drama, took a course to get himself qualified, and the rest is history, I respected him and he respected me, and I would never attempt to undermine his authority by claiming he knew less than me about theatre, and due to this sort of respect if there was something he did not know, he would ask me, if someone needed help he would ask me, etc. If that respect was not there, he may have tried to do it himself and kill everyone there. The other advantage is I taught him at least the basics over my time there, so he could double check my work, and call me on it (ie "mac did you mean to do xyz". I would then explain it, and if he was uncomfortable at the end of it, we found a safer work arround. After all, it was his job on the line, not mine.

 

I am currently wondering whether I made my points in there or not... I think I did.

[Light Console]

How I missed this tread I don't know, however...

When I was at school, 10 years ago, I was "promoted" to "Head of Lighting and Sound". That meant so much to me at the time, but after reading this thread, I agree that the title meant nothing really, other than the chance of missing odd lessons to help out with something more interesting to me! I knew what I wanted to be doing in life and lighting and sound was it. So what was I head of? About 3 floods, 3 Fresnels and 2 Profiles in a drama room, and 12 channels and more of the same lanterns in the hall. Sound playback was a few odd tape player/amp/speaker combos. Big deal now but at the time it was the best!

 

I never, ever, went up the tower to change the lights in the hall, I was afraid of heights at the time more than anything. However, the drama room was where I learnt what each type of light did. Rigging was done from a chair on a table and controlled from an old Furse 6 channel pack. I repaired all sorts of things, a skill which has been most useful to date. I went to various teachers for help with these repairs, and equipment was PAT tested by external contractors.

 

It was going to be my turn to design the lighting for a show when the school burnt down. The show was moved to a local theatre (was it not, Mr Andrew C!?) and I had my first go on a followspot. After this, the school hall gets new dimmers, speakers, amps and an Allen and Heath GL2200. Although the playback is located outside of the box so PE could use it, I sit in the box to play with the new stuff at any time available. This was mostly due to bullying at the time, I could close and lock the door, and hide. I then learnt how a mixing desk works, what each button did etc. It wasn't till I was at a Thomson training course that I was told how to use those controls.

 

So, my memories of my school time are mainly that I self taught myself the very basics of the trade, mostly unsupervised. That didn't bother me then, it would now, I am just glad of the experiences I had.