Childrens Chaperones

[paulears]

Tony - how much is the CRB'ing costing your organisation - I thought it was quite expensive?

[Cougar]

As a freelancer - I guess I should renew my CRB check when it runs out, but I don't think I'll bother - nobody yet is taking them that seriously.

 

I have done a number of events for different organisations that have required CRB checks and under the new system they required one done specifically for them so there is a high chance they will ask you to redo it regardless of how recent it is (I have just been told to get yet another one thats the second this year). Its not a issue for me I understand the need to be safe rather than sorry but I always feel so guilty asking someone to fill in the forms saying its me (especially as I have recently moved and all this has to be done by me sending/ taking relevant forms home).

 

anyway before I go OT to much hope that helps

[Peter Beesley]

I have been asked to stage manage a dance show in a small local theatre involving approx 170 children aged between 3 and 18.( I must be mad) Where can I find information about what ratio of chaperones to children we require?

Hi

There are many national organisations that have rules n regs for this type of event e.g. Scout Gang Shows. Suggest searching their websites for what they do. Maybe a committee decision as to what is reasonable, obviously 3 year olds need more assistance that 13 year olds (except in special needs cases). I would suggest CRB check for all those working with young people. There are several "open umbrella bodies" that can administer checks, I work for one of these. Typical turnround for these checks are "Standard" is 2-3 weeks and "Enhanced" 3-5 weeks. Another thought is an introduction to Child Protection - in other words - protecting Children from Adults, Children from Children and just as important Adults from Children, but please ensure that if someone suspects or reports abuse the key is following your Child Protection Policy (which may only need to run to a few pages, rather than a a 4 ring binder), not a sales pitch, but something we do here for that Voluntary Youth Sector in Lancashire.

Hope that helps, please get in touch if you need to discuss further

Cheers

Peter

[Ynot]

I have done a number of events for different organisations that have required CRB checks and under the new system they required one done specifically for them so there is a high chance they will ask you to redo it regardless of how recent it is (I have just been told to get yet another one thats the second this year).

That is actually wrong - once a CRB has been done, it is valid for the term that is stated on that reply certificate. OK - they're as valid as an MOT in many respects, but there's no good reason for an employer insisting on a re-application if you've got the cert in date already.

 

 

Where can I find information about what ratio of chaperones to children we require?

There are many national organisations that have rules n regs for this type of event e.g. Scout Gang Shows. Suggest searching their websites for what they do. Maybe a committee decision as to what is reasonable, obviously 3 year olds need more assistance that 13 year olds (except in special needs cases).

Sorry Peter, but as I see things, there is only ONE authority that can give chapter and verse and that's the local county council policy.

Oh - and one other thing to bear in mind - the authority having jurisdiction is actually the c/c which covers the child's HOME address - NOT the venue, when it comes to getting performance licenses for the children. Which means if, like us, you're close to 3 counties (Warwickshire, Leicestershire and Staffordshire) you could end up having to cater to slightly different regs for different kids!!

However, the chaperone rules ARE down to the c/c for the venue.

 

TD

[bruce]

(I have just been told to get yet another one thats the second this year).

That is actually wrong - once a CRB has been done, it is valid for the term that is stated on that reply certificate. OK - they're as valid as an MOT in many respects, but there's no good reason for an employer insisting on a re-application if you've got the cert in date already.

 

Are you sure? That's certainly not the case in Scotland....

 

The equivalent check here is the "Disclosure Scotland" check, of which there are several levels. But it's not like an "I'm not a perv" badge - it's not transferrable.

 

That actually makes a lot of sense. If someone were to claim that "they had been checked before, here's the ticket to prove it", then what reassurances do you have that it's genuine?

 

I know of people who have had the enhanced check several times - eg one through work, once because he runs a youth club, and once because his wife is a childminder. In each case, the employer/organisation had to apply for a separate disclosure check. In practice, if the organisation requesting the subsequent checks quotes the reference number for the previous one, it can speed up the process, but an employer (etc) must always get (and should only trust) a check that they have initiated themselves.

 

Bruce.

[houghw]

I know this thread is a little old but I thought I would wade in with my experiences and concerns in the hope of getting some help/advice...

 

I am the Stage Manager for a small am-dram company in Luton. I've been SM for a number of years now and it is my experience that almost every production has children in it somewhere (they even managed to squeeze a minor into Cabaret!)

 

Unfortunately a combination of general ignorance and/or money means that the role of chaperone tends to be overlooked quite often.

 

We have done a few shows where we have had a proper chaperone with a separate storage area for the wee ones etc. but by and large the kids are put in with the adults in their dressing rooms and looked after by CRB checked cast.

 

Obviously we have had problems here... The most notable seems to be who looks after the kids when said cast member is on stage? In one production the entire cast were on stage apart from the little girl who came and stood by me to watch. Yes this is admirable behaviour by the girl but it was just before quite a large scene change!

 

Who checks the validity of the CRB checks?

 

We have also had other problems like hiring a chaperone who... well lets just say she wasn't a people person and one of the children refused to have anything to do with her! Unfortunately the society justified this by saying that said member was 15 and so could look after herself.

 

I guess my first question is who carries the can if the society do not get a chaperone or use cast to do the job and the unspeakable happens?

 

Secondly, how do I do something to resolve this? Our current production has three teenagers and a young lad in it and as far as I can make out the only person looking after them is a cast member (are you detecting a pattern here?)

 

I am a little worried as our next show is going to be Annie?

 

I have also e-mailed my local council to see what they say about this.

 

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

Wayne

[Ynot]

Hmmm...

To be blunt, you're breaking the rules on several counts there, I'm afraid.

 

Assuming that said shows had minors performing for more than 4 performances in a rolling six months, then EVERY child must be licensed and a FULL compliment of chaperones is required:

 

Minors must not share dressing rooms with adults;

Nominated Chaperones must be chaperones and ONLY chaperones - they cannot have other jobs, eg cast, crew, FoH etc.

You should have enough chaperones to cope with the max ratio (12-1 I think) even when the cast of minors is split, including escorting them to toilets etc;

The classification of a minor is a child of statutory school age, so that includes any child up to 16 who is still at compulsory school attendance. So your 15 year old by rights can NOT look after themselves (though my sympathies with anyone trying to manage those teens who think they don't need supervision - they're often the ones who need MOST supervision!)

The County Council will be responsible for issuing chaperone licences, and in Warwickshire at least, also carry out inspections of shows and chaperone setups etc.

 

As I said earlier in this ancient thread, you should check your local County Council CPS - I can put you in touch with WCC if you want to try to get at the CCC contact via that route, but you MUST strike up a relationship ASAP, to be frank.

[paulears]

There is some real pressure behind this area at the moment. Stagecoach, the Stage and others firmly behind some changes to the law.

some info and links here.

 

If you are doing Annie - without doing the kids bit properly, I'd stand well clear. The officers of the Society are breaking the law - as simple as that. As a public organisation, the powers that be have a simple task checking on your previous management of kids - and it sounds dire. The CRB check means nothing at all. After all, it's just a check that someone has no previous on the day th check is done. It's not a licence of an kind, just another of a series of checks.

 

Assuming you have a good and prepared local authority - one of the things Stagecoach find difficult to predict - they will issue a licence - but to get it requires a lot of work, and some expense. The kids are effectively given a licence to work in a prohibited location. So having them around is really quite dangerous.

 

Although it's a real pain in the bum - you must do this properly. If you get it wrong, and then need a crb done for maybe a job, what might happen? It's feasible that the Society could get prosecuted - with kids stuff nowadays, you never know.

 

Are you all members of NODA - if so, they will help - they do it all the time.

[Maddison]

Who checks the validity of the CRB checks?

 

Not sure if this is meant to be rhetorical or not...

 

If it is, you are a fool. Sure 99 times out of 100 nothing will happen, but if that 1 time happens to be on your watch, you will be hung, drawn and quartered.

 

If it is not, then I would suggest, SM, PM and, if you have enough kids to merit a chaperone co-ordinator, them as well. And the crb check needs to be for the organisation that you are doing things for; my RFU CRB certificate would not count for an Am Dram production. A stupid beauracracy, but like I say, if you don't jump through the hoop and something goes wrong then you are up the proverbial.

[J Pearce]

There are several very good amdram groups in Luton who might be able to advise you on these matters.

Try contacting St Andrews Players.

[w/robe]

I understood, though this is not an issue I have ever been directly involved in so feel free to tell me that I am wrong, that a child's parent/legal guardian can supervise them back stage. This does not help you when you have hundreds of them in Annie but may be useful when you only have 1 child on stage.

One way round the dressing room problem, if you really can not solve it any other way, is that all the rest of the cast change and then leave never to return and then the child/children enter and it is their room.

 

It sounds as if the society needs a policy on how it deals with children in production (obviously incorporating all legal requirements) and whos responsibility the implementation of that policy will be.

[Ynot]

I understood, though this is not an issue I have ever been directly involved in so feel free to tell me that I am wrong, that a child's parent/legal guardian can supervise them back stage.

Yes, that is indeed true.

This does not help you when you have hundreds of them in Annie but may be useful when you only have 1 child on stage.

But it also does not help when you have said parent disappear one night of the run to go watch the performance as a paying punter... Who looks after the kid then? :P

One way round the dressing room problem, if you really can not solve it any other way, is that all the rest of the cast change and then leave never to return and then the child/children enter and it is their room.

<Tongue in cheek> What colour is the sky in this utopian world you live in?!! :P <Tongue out of cheek>

Seriously, there can't be that many shows where the costume changes would allow that to happen. Or venues that have suitable resting place for cast when not on stage other than the dressing rooms!

 

We have a great deal of info on our theatre web site which deals with the regs etc here in Warwickshire. They are a little out of date - our CPS reps are looking at them to advise what neds changing BUT the majority of the info is correct. (Except for the addresses/phone numbers for WCC, which have changed, and I've not got round to updating).

 

Feel free to browse. Follow the Policies Link then Child Protection link

[Wuddy]

Hi Wayne,

 

If you're a member of an Am. Dram. group the group may be a member on N.O.D.A. (National Operatic & Dramatic Association) have a look HERE they are the main organistaion for Am. Dram.

 

They have a load of fact sheets in pdf which member groups (you require your membership number to access) can view and download, there are several giving guidance on child chapreones.

 

If your group is not a member then it's worth the £25.00? to become an individual member.

[w/robe]

<Tongue in cheek> What colour is the sky in this utopian world you live in?!! :) <Tongue out of cheek>

Duck egg blue - I'm drowning in costumes for our Christmas production of Duck!

Seriously, there can't be that many shows where the costume changes would allow that to happen. Or venues that have suitable resting place for cast when not on stage other than the dressing rooms!

Very true, though there may be a Green Room, but the children MUST have a separate dressing room if this can not be provided then they can not be in the show.

[James]

Aplogies for responding to ancient posts but given the thread has been resurected

 

Tony - how much is the CRB'ing costing your organisation - I thought it was quite expensive?

 

Enhanced checks cost £36 and Standard checks cost £31.

If you use an Umbrella Body (as you require less than 100 checks per year) then they are permitted to charge and "Admin fee" on top of that

Admin fees if charged - (not all umbrella bodies do charge) are listed on the database of Umbrella Bodies which you can search here. http://www.crb.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=349

 

I have done a number of events for different organisations that have required CRB checks and under the new system they required one done specifically for them so there is a high chance they will ask you to redo it regardless of how recent it is (I have just been told to get yet another one thats the second this year).

That is actually wrong - once a CRB has been done, it is valid for the term that is stated on that reply certificate. OK - they're as valid as an MOT in many respects, but there's no good reason for an employer insisting on a re-application if you've got the cert in date already.

 

Tony - I the impression I got from Evan’s (Cougar's) post was that he works for different employers and so has multiple checks.

Regarding re-application by an employer then as

Disclosures are designed to help employers

make safer recruitment decisions. They are

also available to persons exercising

regulatory and licensing functions.

It stands to reason that this could only be required if the employer is required to recheck for a regulatory or licensing function.

 

Remembering also that the employer should not retaining the information received

for longer than is

required for the particular purpose. In

general, this should be no later than six

months after the date on which recruitment

or other relevant decisions have been taken,

 

So in terms of your reference to an MOT - remember that Evan’s employer should have disposed of the results after six months,

 

and as for multiple employers anybody he works for or volunteers for is

listed in the Exceptions Order to the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974

can require a check.

 

James

 

all references taken today from the Code of Practice and Explanatory Guide for Registered Persons and other recipients of Disclosure Information from the CRB

http://www.crb.gov.uk/PDF/code_of_practice.pdf