Converting Dmx to d54

[bruce]

Just think my option would be quicker and cheaper.

 

I doubt it would be cheaper. It would certainly be more complicated :-)

 

Ynot's solution is the obvious one.

 

But Andrew C's point is spot on - get someone who knows what they're doing to have a look.

[Wuddy]

We've used a Showtec 72 chanel De-mux in the past and as far as I remeber it dosen't output D54.

 

It out puts 72 chanels of either 5, 10 or 15 volt + or - on three 25pin D connectors

 

We could never get it to work with a negative output (-10v) when set to negative, the outputs seemed to short circuit, the power supply got VERY hot

 

After sveral failled attempts we borrowed a couple of QComander Demux units (we only needed 48 channels) and they worked perfectly so the problem was deffinitely with the Showtec Demux.

[jayselway]

[confused]

 

Ok, so you have a 25 pin D output on the multiexchanger, going to the STM's which take -10v for control. Why are you trying to go DMX > D54 > Analogue, if all you have to do is go from DMX to analogue - if you're going into the STM's on a 25pin, then surely a DMX Demux would be best, and you could wire the DIN outputs to the 25 pin.

 

Or am I missing something here

 

[/confused]

[gareth]

Paul, I live not-very-far-away-at-all from your school - I'll come and have a look, if you like, and let you know what you need to make the gear talk to each other. You'll have to clear it with a member of staff first (for fairly obvious reasons, I'm not about to start poking around in a school theatre just on the say-so of a student!). Let me know.

[Wuddy]

I'm getting confused too.

 

I seem to recall that the M24 outputs D54 via a 4pin Bleecon or some similar connector

 

So I would assume that the control input to the STMs is via a similar connector

 

Your new desk outputs via a 5pin XLR converts to 3pin XLR and into the Showtec Multiexchanger.

 

You're outputting -10v analogue from the Showtec via a 25pin D connector

 

How are you connectinmg the 25 cores to the STMs if the STMs input is a D54 bleecon connector.

 

Or was there a D54 Demux between the M24 and the STMs which has been removed and conectivity to the STMs is now via a 25pin D

 

As I said in my previous post we couldnt get a showtec to work with -10V output, we didnt have time to check ours out fully but we were of the opinion that the D25 pin out diagram printed on the case might be reversed because it was a D25 socket but pin out was labled as a plug would be

 

A bit like the early NJD Spectres that had the RJ45 DMX in & Remote in transposed

[bruce]

Paul, I live not-very-far-away-at-all from your school - I'll come and have a look, if you like, and let you know what you need to make the gear talk to each other.

 

Now, that's a helpful post....

[ampcats]

showtec manual... in English despite URL spelling

 

http://www.acson.com/acson/2003/Manuales/C...00-10/Me_72.pdf

 

does DMX in and MIDI in, analogue out only.... (at -10v for STM's without d54 boards in them). maybe you told your supplier that you had STM's and didn't make it clear that you had STM's with a d54 input requirement - as per your previous purchase of the as yet unused LC2412, maybe clear, concise communication would have helped you out there as well.

 

the manual does not have pinout details apart from what is contained on the image of the rear panel, but it is NOT the standard of reading the two rows separately left to right (as lines in a book)

pin 1 = ch. 1

pin 2 = ch. 2

.

.

pin 25=common

 

it appears to be a literal view (left to right ignoring the pin numbering) - that probably made for an easier PCB layout

 

pin 1 = ch. 1

pin14 = ch.2

pin2 =ch.3

pin15=ch.4

.

.

pin 12 = ch.23

pin25 = ch.24

pin13 = common

[Ynot]

I seem to recall that the M24 outputs D54 via a 4pin Bleecon or some similar connector

 

So I would assume that the control input to the STMs is via a similar connector

Your new desk outputs via a 5pin XLR converts to 3pin XLR and into the Showtec Multiexchanger.

You're outputting -10v analogue from the Showtec via a 25pin D connector

How are you connectinmg the 25 cores to the STMs if the STMs input is a D54 bleecon connector.

Or was there a D54 Demux between the M24 and the STMs which has been removed and conectivity to the STMs is now via a 25pin D

Simple answer even without seeing the install - the M24 talks to the D54 demux which outputs analogue to the STM racks. How that is wired depends entirely on which demux is there - if its a skeleton card, then its 25 screw-terminals. If it's a boxed demux it'll be via either 4 Bleecon cables or a 25-pin D-type which will be wired out to the STM's screw terms.

Tony

 

Just think my option would be quicker and cheaper.

Ummm....

I'd be interested to hear HOW you think it would be cheaper, or even quicker...

 

My solution = NO further purchases and he gets an M24 plus D54 demux to sell on Ebay.

Your solution = cost of a DMX-D54 converter (which ain't cheap!!) and only the M24 to sell.

 

TD

[iaindennis]

I can throw some light on this and feel compelled to comment as we have been accused of having sold the useless multiexchanger. I remember this sale well as I spent a great deal of time discussing the problem with the teacher concerned back in September 2005 when the replacement demux was purchased.

 

From memory, your dimmers were not STMs but old Act 6's. We originally talked at length about finding a DMX to D54 converter befores establishing that the dimmers were analogue. The multiexchanger was therefore the obvious solution to the problem.

 

The reason that you have no joy in making the setup work is that the pin configuration on the 25pin output from your strand box is not the same as on the multiexchanger. This was also discussed at the time. You will need to reconfigure the connections - a simple enough thing to do with a soldering iron and certainly well away from any mains voltages.

 

If you need further help with this, and it sounds like you do, you can get in touch to discuss.

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Iain

[gareth]

With respect, Paul, it sounds like you really need someone to come and help you with this. I appreciate that you're keen to get this issue solved yourself, but if you can't tell the difference between an STM ...

http://www.strandarchive.co.uk/control/dimmers/stm/stmrack.jpg

... and an Act 6 ...

http://www.strandarchive.co.uk/control/actrange/act_dimmers.jpg

... then it doesn't really bode well for getting the finer points of the project right, does it? <_<

 

Let me know if you want me to come and have a look-see.

[Ynot]

I can throw some light on this and feel compelled to comment as we have been accused of having sold the useless multiexchanger.

Au contraire, Iain - I think the majority feeling is that the multiexchanger is in fact the RIGHT tool for the job, ALTHOUGH that does depend upon the type of racks actually in situ - which seems to be in doubt now you've mentioned the Act6's!! However, if these are analogue Act 6's, the OP may still be in with a shot! Just means he has to make up some Bleecon cable ends to connect to the o/p of the Exchanger....

[iaindennis]

I have contacted Paul offline to try to bring this whole saga to a close. Its a real shame that when things dont work as expected, we arent simply contacted directly and at the time for further advice.

 

The reason that I am absolutely convinced that the dimmers are Act 6's is that we were originally contacted for a DMX to D54 converter. My view was then and remains that an expensive protocol converter was the wrong choice to make a budget desk talk to 20 year old dimmers. The Act 6 thing sticks in my mind as we did stay with the protocol converter thing for a while as I had (wrongly) assumed that we were talking about D54 only Act 6's. The fact that there was a D54 demux in the system only emerged later.

 

I am minded to suggest that the lead in question is simply sent to us here where we can get one of the guys to reterminate it.

 

 

Iain

[Brian]

...the pin configuration on the 25pin output from your strand box is not the same as on the multiexchanger...

 

For everyones info the Strand D54 demux is wired as per ampcats first list...

pin 1 = ch. 1

pin 2 = ch. 2

.

pin 25=common

 

The Showtec demux is wired as posts below with pin 1 being common. Pin 13 being channel 1, pin 25 being channel 2. pin 12 being channel 3 etc

 

 

[EDIT]

Showtec pinout updated

[ampcats]

Amateurtechie - the two quotes from Iain below suggest that your communication skills are well below what is required -

 

The fact that there was a D54 demux in the system only emerged later.

.

.

From memory, your dimmers were not STMs but old Act 6's

 

You made only a passing mention of the Demux in your previous post from earlier this month,

Anyways cut a long story short, bought a multiexchanger but it still wont work for some reason, anyways got the M24 working again so I'm not bothered now

I wish I could do that.... At a guess you ARE bothered now because the school is wanting to use the new desk on the end of year show for the little ones, and to see the money they spent in action.... Hmmm?

 

Then, barely a fortnight later in this post you said

....kept the LC2412 in storage as there wasn't much we could do with it. Recently acquired a Showtec 72 channel Multiexchanger to use that we were told would correct the problem

Yet I doubt strongly that Iain would have said he sold it to you 9 months ago if he hadn't, or would have sold it to you if he thought it was not capable of doing what was required.... and If we are to believe Iain's recollections, you have everything you need apart from the COMMON SENSE to look up yourself, or phone Iain up 9 months ago and ask about the wiring differences between the strand and showtec demux output sockets. While I thought that the 25 pin connector wiring might be an issue sooner or later, so provided them above, at the time of posting I had not realised it might have been your problem all along...

 

I like to think that Iain's generous offer of rewiring the lead (since you probably cannot) has nothing to do with somebody accusing him of selling equipment 'unfit for the purpose', when it seems that the school attendee himself is mostly responsible for this debacle...

 

May I suggest strongly that you do not touch a thing and after the lead is rewired, get a competent person in this field of work (Gareth?) in to sort out this fine mess, since after both this and your other post in this forum, we are still no wiser as to what racks you have! - in fact, the only kit we are 100% sure you have is 2 desks and a 72 channel demux, 2 of which have gathered dust for almost a whole school year...

[Paul Roberts]

With respect, Paul, it sounds like you really need someone to come and help you with this. I appreciate that you're keen to get this issue solved yourself, but if you can't tell the difference between an STM ...

... then it doesn't really bode well for getting the finer points of the project right, does it? <_<

Let me know if you want me to come and have a look-see.

 

They're definetly STM's, trust me.

 

You made only a passing mention of the Demux in your previous post from earlier this month,

Anyways cut a long story short, bought a multiexchanger but it still wont work for some reason, anyways got the M24 working again so I'm not bothered now

I wish I could do that.... At a guess you ARE bothered now because the school is wanting to use the new desk on the end of year show for the little ones, and to see the money they spent in action.... Hmmm?

May I suggest strongly that you do not touch a thing and after the lead is rewired, get a competent person in this field of work (Gareth?) in to sort out this fine mess, since after both this and your other post in this forum, we are still no wiser as to what racks you have! - in fact, the only kit we are 100% sure you have is 2 desks and a 72 channel demux, 2 of which have gathered dust for almost a whole school year...

I'm not really interested in being beaten up over my primitive knowledge of lighting. I am no expert and I'll admit that, but surely everyone here was once at the stage where I am regarding knowledge and expertise. I joined this forum wanting to know more, and gain some more knowledge from professionals. With all due respect I am only interested in reading constructive comments.

 

Regarding this problem with the conversion, the equipment has lain in storage mainly due to the fact I am also a student at the school and have had no choice but to put more attention into my studies. It is only now that the exam period has come to an end I can turn my attention back to the lighting and hopefully get this issue resolved.

 

And I can tell the difference between an STM and an Act 6 :o

 

The reason that I am absolutely convinced that the dimmers are Act 6's is that we were originally contacted for a DMX to D54 converter. My view was then and remains that an expensive protocol converter was the wrong choice to make a budget desk talk to 20 year old dimmers. The Act 6 thing sticks in my mind as we did stay with the protocol converter thing for a while as I had (wrongly) assumed that we were talking about D54 only Act 6's. The fact that there was a D54 demux in the system only emerged later.

 

I didn't know then what I do now (what I was told by those at Theatr Clwyd was that the school ran D54 and needed a converter to run DMX - I didn't know it was the demux that converted the signal to D54 but assumed that the dimmers ran on D54 entirely as there was no mention of -10v analogue). After this whole issue came up in September, I spent a lot of time looking through the Strand Archive site researching what equipment the school has so I was in a better frame of mind. Once I knew all this, yes I should have gotten into contact with Iain to correct the conversion issue but didn't due mainly to an increase in schoolwork and common sense not coming into play. Now I have more free time I am keen to get the problem resolved asap and will contact Iain within the next few days.