Improving the sound for my church

[jamesperrett]

Thanks, had been hoping new mics wouldn't be needed due to the cost, :P

 

I don't quite understand this - the best option is to buy a new mic and keep the rest of your system as it is. I'm not sure how much a decent lavalier mic is these days but it will certainly be less expensive than a new sound system and will be a much better investment than a bunch of Behringer gear.

 

Cheap electret condenser mics seem to be attuned to things like paper rustles but a better mic will respond to different sounds more evenly.

 

Cheers

 

James.

[mumbles]

I don't quite understand this - the best option is to buy a new mic and keep the rest of your system as it is.

The current system consists of an amp with 5 inputs and 1 output. It was bought in the 70's. The newest bits of the system are the radio mics which are only 5 years old.

 

What we wanted to do was use a cheap desk (specced behringer as I had their kit at school, and there wasn't ever a problem, apart form the number of auxes) to give an EQ on each channel, and then the desk would feed into the amp, which still works. The idea of a gate was an extra idea, as we're still puttoing a desk in. The problem is that each sennheiser system will cost one and a half time our budget. I know this is list prices, so will be a bit cheaper, but won't all to a third of the price each.

 

I accept that new mics is the way forward, but the problem is as always with the cash.

[pumphouse]

I think you have to try and push for the best solution - better radio mics. If the rest is still working fine, you don't have to replace it just because it's old. You only really need to consider replacement if it is unreliable or can't be maintained. From what you say, you are going to keep the amp and speakers anyway.

 

If you spend less money on the wrong things, then you will be on 'system no 2' as described in the article, when you really want to jump to the last system in the chain!

 

I frequently have to work against budget problems in amateur venues (and also in a lot of corporate system design work these days). We generally push for fewer facilities/systems at better quality, rather than lowering the quality and keeping the width. It may be worth considering buying just one better radio mic (sennheiser evolution G2 low-end will suffice as you don't need lots of channels). If you can prove the difference here, then you will be better thanked than spending the money on kit that doesn't fix it.

 

Could you also consider using a fixed cardioid pulpit mic, rather than a radio mic, or do they move around too much?

 

Hope this helps.

 

Jason

[mumbles]

If the rest is still working fine, you don't have to replace it just because it's old.

The reason for buying a desk is that we currently have no EQ over each of the channels seperately. With the vicar this isn't so much of a problem, as his voice seems to work well, but the assistant that has recently started sound like poo! There is too much hi, and low, but not enough mid-hi, and even less mid-lo. We have tryed swopping the radio mics round between him and the vicar and it doesn't help, and it gets no better whatever kind of mic he uses.

 

I don't intend to replace the amp or speakers, as for the service they work well enough, and will continue to do so hopefully for many years. However, we are already aware that they may die in the not too long, and so are fund raising towards replacing those when they need them.

 

I frequently have to work against budget problems........We generally push for fewer facilities/systems at better quality, rather than lowering the quality and keeping the width.

As the vicar and his assistant both conduct th service, both need mics. We then also need a lectern and a pulpit mic. On this basis, we can't reduce the size of the system. The TOA mics we have work realy well, and when we tested the sennheisers, only one of the six of us could tell any difference, until the vicar kneels for prayers and we have rustling of paper and hear him breathing as his head is bowed, so the general quality of the mics isn't poor.

 

Also, if we were a venue that regularly had bands worshipping, or large choirs or had touring companies performing, then yes, we would spend the extra, but with 2 services a week, and a church building that is desperately in nees of repair and decoration, even getting a budget of £300, was £300 more than the church has to spend. The church has almost no income outside of the collection, with which to pay for maintainance of the building, heating, water, electrics, the list goes on.

 

I know that a solution would be too change the radio mics, but was wondering if there was another solution, hence my gate question, that would achieve a comparable quality for less.

 

Could you also consider using a fixed cardioid pulpit mic, rather than a radio mic, or do they move around too much?

As said earlier, we have a lectern mic and a pulpit mic in addition to the radio mics, but still need radios for:

-Up at the Altar

-Kneeling for prayers

-Recieving the offertory

-Saying the peace

and then for when hes walking around during the childrens address.

[djwiltsh]

Garbage in, garbage out - it's that simple.

 

Even with thousands of pounds worth of mixer and eq, gates etc, you will never get a decent sound if your source material is not up to scratch.

 

Spend your £300 on a decent radio mic, then save up for another over time etc.

 

Dan

[mumbles]

Spend your £300 on a decent radio mic, then save up for another over time etc.

Are you saying we should have one TOA mic, and one sennhieser mic for a couple of years, because the church cannot afford 2 new sennheisers. I have always been taught not to use different kinds of radio mic at the same time, presumably because of different systems making the voices sound different. Is this not the case?

 

EDIT: Just thought about it, and as I couldn't tell the two mics apart during general use, this may not be a concern.

[djwiltsh]

Are you saying we should have one TOA mic, and one sennhieser mic for a couple of years, because the church cannot afford 2 new sennheisers. I have always been taught not to use different kinds of radio mic at the same time, presumably because of different systems making the voices sound different. Is this not the case?

 

EDIT: Just thought about it, and as I couldn't tell the two mics apart during general use, this may not be a concern.

 

Yep, use the better one for the most important speaking, and use the TOA one for less important stuff (it that makes sense!).

 

It is fine to mix and match between manufacturers so long as the radio frequencies do not interfere with each other. Yes the Senny will sound obviously better than the TOA, but that is unavoidable given the budget you have.

 

Dan

[Tom R]

I would agree - get one new radio mic for now and use for the most important task and keep the TOA going...then maybe try and get a desk next and then another radio mic...

 

I know it will take time but in all honesty it is what is needed!