Tomo Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 With respect Trundle, you really don't know what you're talking about. Yes, movers are cool.Yes, movers can be very useful. However - they are VERY expensive, not just to buy, but to maintain. When a mover breaks, you pretty much have to send it back to a specialist technician to fix it - this costs a fortune. When a generic breaks (which is much rarer due to the fewer moving bits), generally anybody with a bit of common sense can fix it, and the parts are cheaper.- For example, I could talk you through a complete disassembly and reassembly of a Source4 over the phone. Not so a Revolution or a Cyberlight! Lamps for movers tend to cost a fair bit as well, and are more difficult to replace than you might think - lamp alignment is critical in most fixtures, both for brightness and life. This has all been discussed many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trundle Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Sory! I was just giving my opinion ! yes compared to some heads they are c*** but I was just saying how I used them once! they didnt even belong to me! I am just here to have a chat about lighting, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingertom Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Sory! I was just giving my opinion ! yes compared to some heads they are c*** but I was just saying how I used them once! they didnt even belong to me! I am just here to have a chat about lighting, nothing more. Excuse me if this appears rude....But if you only used them once are you in any way qualified/experienced enough to recommend them, with regards to the OP? From what I can gather this topic is not for a "chat" about lighting, but some advice. I am by no means the most experienced LX bod here, but many wiser ( I shall refrain from saying older), industry professionals have countless combined years of experience with similar scenarios. It is perfectly plausible that they may have a moderate inkling of the subject matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trundle Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 look I am only puttting in my input-bloomin heck I should never have bothered. seriosly guys, please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekij Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 I don't think Trundle was too far off the mark with his/her (well intentioned) post that reported success with using movers for a school.Hiring them is to be considered for a school (perhaps, if the school has someone of sufficient ability to be able to use them).Buying them is strongly not recommended. (However the OP was asking specifically about buying them, which is why Trundle got so much flack as his/her post was presumably interpreted in this context to imply that buying them was good way to go for a school). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trundle Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Thank you EKIJ and they were borrowed-I paid nought for them for a night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingertom Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 My apologies if I appeared to be a little aggressive about the use of movers in schools. I have had the pleasure of lighting a few school productions recently with the use of some cheaply hired movers. They are a fantastic tool used correctly, and the kids/parents were almost dumbstruck by the potential. I am not at all doing down the moving head concept. But look at even some big producing houses regionally..... very few OWN moving heads/mirrors. And those are theatres with a full pool of full time LX to service maintain. As house stock they cost a fortune in the long run. Hiring for a show by show basis could be a very good move for the OP, but I would suggest also hiring a proddy LX from the hire co for the first few occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhaynes199 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 But look at even some big producing houses regionally..... very few OWN moving heads/mirrors. And those are theatres with a full pool of full time LX to service maintain. As house stock they cost a fortune in the long run. The advantages of a long term hire surely outweigh those of buying your own units: - Repairs and service ae hire co's responsibility- You can change your hire inventory regularly for different shows instead of being tied to using your own lights- Lights like all things depreciate, with hiring you can keep up with technology without having to decomission old units- Hire companies will often to you excellent deals on long term hire I could go on.... Which is why you'll find, as gingertom rightly points out, that very few theatres have their own moving lights, or generics for that matter, let alone schools! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Which is why you'll find, as gingertom rightly points out, that very few theatres have their own moving lights, or generics for that matter, let alone schools! few theatre have their own lights - INCLUDING generics? The west end is a different beast - but I can't think of any theatre that doesn't have any lights? Movers may or may not be part of the permanent inventory, but generics certainly are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokm Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Which is why you'll find, as gingertom rightly points out, that very few theatres have their own moving lights, or generics for that matter, let alone schools! few theatre have their own lights - INCLUDING generics? The west end is a different beast - but I can't think of any theatre that doesn't have any lights? Movers may or may not be part of the permanent inventory, but generics certainly are? Indeed, most receiving houses have atleast some LX, enough to do some basic washes. Not all shows tour a complete LX rig! On the subject of in-house movers: in my experience its actually the smaller theatres that commonly have them. Just to name a few, The elgiva in chesham has 8 mini scans, Beck theatre in hayes has couple of mac5's & 6's and Penley Theatre near tring has some robe heads. I suppose it might have something to do with attracting shows to their theatre, they have everything in house, no need to hire anything extra! (guessing here) But id think the reason larger no1 and no2 houses don't usually bother with movers is because a) the cost - as mentioned before. and b) they wouldn't get used often, theatre I part time at has a good few scrollers that get used once or twice a year! Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 I think it is an acceptable idea to install a few movers in schools, many of the cheaper generics are perfectly reliable and with little moving around they need little maintenance, my 14 yr old son did a one day martin course on maintenance and can clean and do basic maintenance on our trucked around hire stock.It is not rocket science.If your students are going into the entertainment industry they will come into contact with movers and should know about the different logic you need to control them, as soon as you introduce movers into a school the 'nerds' are in there in a flash and will go to the trouble to find out how to use them, this can bring together the science stream students together with the arts mob to their mutual benefit.Don't forget that kids are there to learn and you can't learn without the gear.Desks can be bought very cheaply which will function perfectly well.If a school does a musical, has a couple of disco's and a few dance shows the gear can get some good use.I see some schools who get great value out of their movers as well as some who don't, it depends on the attitude of the teachers and I try to persuade them that these are toys and must be played with in order that the kids become fluent with them.Please understand that a school is not there to produce shows in the most practical and cost effective way, it is there to learn and explore and the new technology is important in its own right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokm Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Alas, I wish my perf arts teachers were of the same mindset as David A :blink: Best comment I remember hearing from one of them was 'I don't think those lights should be spinning around and flashing like that, I was told it breaks the bulbs' or something to that affect anyway. All I had done was stick a shape on and was playing around with the shutter.. Just shows that alot of the time the teachers don't actually know what the kit can do, which means then that the students are basically banned from maintaining the lanterns just because the teachers think it might be dangerous. Think that is one of the main reasons why schools don't often have and sometimes shouldn't get movers, as well as all the reasons before now. Its just the way it'll probably be until the attitudes of narrow minded teachers change. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maeterlinck Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Not sure that's entirely fair on the teachers. Movers are much more complex than generics. It requires thinking on more levels. There's also extra bits of an LX desk to learn to control them. People have to be able to walk before they can run. There's nothing wrong with generics and a 2 preset desk.I know I said earlier that movers can be useful in this sort of situation with enough shows, but the students didn't programme them, we did, they were learning the level 24 in the other space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Just shows that alot of the time the teachers don't actually know what the kit can do, which means then that the students are basically banned from maintaining the lanterns just because the teachers think it might be dangerous.Good, because it is. Just think about that for a bit. 14-16 year old messing around with igniter circuits? Motor control? The weight of some movers? It doesn't matter a d@mn what the kit can do, but kids must not be entrusted with the maintenance. Despite what I thought 30 years ago... :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokm Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Just shows that alot of the time the teachers don't actually know what the kit can do, which means then that the students are basically banned from maintaining the lanterns just because the teachers think it might be dangerous.Good, because it is. Just think about that for a bit. 14-16 year old messing around with igniter circuits? Motor control? The weight of some movers? It doesn't matter a d@mn what the kit can do, but kids must not be entrusted with the maintenance. Despite what I thought 30 years ago... :blink:I Never said they should be left on their own with the kit and left to play with it, I was just agreeing with David & other peoples point of view that kids (if interested in this area) should get a chance to have a look at the insides, swap out parts etc. All under supervision of course. Same with rigging of movers, it should and very often is (in schools and colleges) supervised by someone that the institution feels is qualified. I'm sure opening up a mover on the ground under supervision is much less potentially dangerous than letting a student do a simple task such as go up a ladder/tower/tallescope and gel/focus a lantern, but still they are allowed to do it Noticed in your profile Andrew, that you work in a school environment, are you saying that you would never let any students do any of the things I stated above? Even if you were telling them what to do? If not & without wishing to sound patronising here, how are they supposed to learn? Maybe you would and do let students do such things and I'm just saying things that aren't relevant, thats why I'm asking do you.. Tom p.s. are you talking about danger because of the cost to replace or actual danger to students themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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