Lower Wattage Moving Yokes for Schools

[maeterlinck]

Surely this depends on the age and type of the students. It would be rubbish not to let technical degree level students not rig lights, epsecially movers. But I'm not sure I'd let primary school kids touch a lantern.

Maintenance I'd think should probably be a degree level thing.

 

Of couse all this ignores the fact that if any student, whatever the age, is really keen about technical theatre, will be far more focused and trust worthy than one who is doing it because their course requires them to.

I really saw this during my degree, the turns who had to rig lights did it awfully, where as the few who did technical theatre as well were, lets say, different! :blink:

[paulears]

There are a few people not living in the real world here.

 

The way schools are at the moment in general (there are a few exceptions, but they are VERY rare) - is that they take on qualified, or unqualified young teachers who are generalists within their area of expertise. Few have any kind of industry experience, most having done school/college/uni straight into school or college as teachers. Some get linked. So a PE trained teacher also covers dance because it is physical, a maths teacher covers electronics because it has maths in it and a technology teacher who played the flute when they were at school becomes the music technology teacher. If their uni course didn't cover lighting as a discrete subject area, bundling it in with everything non-performing, they will have no idea.

 

I am afraid the concept of teaching 14-16 year olds what happens inside a moving head fixture is a rarity - covering the course requirements needs basic general concepts - far more important things to do with limited time than attempt to explain servo motors and gob wheels! Maybe as after hours activity with the keen ones - but with a general class? No way. They would wreck the kit the moment your back was turned.

[maeterlinck]

I'm not for a second going to suggest that teachers have loads of time to go though lots of specific examples. However, teachers are also there to nurture a childs learning. This doesn't mean that they should try to teach the kids stuff they don't know, but push them in the direction of someone who does. Telephone number of the local arts centre / community theatre with a good reference fi.

I know this doesn't work with all kids and trying to teach the concept that fighting is bad and 2+2=4 is enough for some kids, but surely those that know should be pushed along??

 

Also wouldn't a mover be a godo example of a real world example motor control? Just because you don't explain the DMX protocol doesn't mean that moving a fader which affects the pan isn't a good example, and teaching tool.

(I'm obviously avoiding the cost, set up and extra time involved with this)

[AndrewR]

(I'm obviously avoiding the cost, set up and extra time involved with this)

 

 

Are these not the things that everybody is pointing out as the big problem?

[maeterlinck]

I meant their specific use as a teaching aid for motor and control systems, not in a theatrical sense which is what everybody is pointing out. It was more of a sideways though towards what paulears said in the last paragraph of his last post.

[Andrew C]

I'd be happy (ish) for BTec and above students to be taught, and then get "hands on" with the internals of kit. However, there is the obligation under EAW and more generally H&SAW for equipment "to be maintained so as to be safe", which cannot be delegated to students. It remains the responsibility of the institution.

Systems, work activities and protective equipment

4.—(1) All systems shall at all times be of such construction as to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, danger.

 

(2) As may be necessary to prevent danger, all systems shall be maintained so as to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, such danger.

 

(3) Every work activity, including operation, use and maintenance of a system and work near a system, shall be carried out in such a manner as not to give rise, so far as is reasonably practicable, to danger.

and

Persons to be competent to prevent danger and injury

16. No person shall be engaged in any work activity where technical knowledge or experience is necessary to prevent danger or, where appropriate, injury, unless he possesses such knowledge or experience, or is under such degree of supervision as may be appropriate having regard to the nature of the work.

Can a teacher (except on a specialised course) really be expected to supervise little Johnny poking around in a mover?

[David A]

The response to my previous comment is more a critique of your schools than of the points I raised, here in Australia I make a living catering to schools.typically I go along to a school for musical with some movers.I let the students rig the lights and give them a run down on the different logic they need to plot them I then tell them that these are toys and must be played with if they are going to learn about them, there are always a couple of kids who will take up the challenge and do all the plotting for the show.When I go back for the final rehearsal I very seldom have to address any technical issues mainly I have to tone down the lighting so that it doesn't overpower the show.The teachers are very happy to stand back while I show the kids how to go about things and they learn themselves.One more than one occasion the boy who took to the lighting quickest was the class troublemaker who found a challenge and interest.Just to put your minds at rest I don't let the kids fix the igniter circuits but basic maintenance like cleaning filters and lenses is no problem.As to cost the capital cost are moderately high but running costs of movers in schools are very low, particularly lamp costs as the discharge lamps don't break like filament ones.Whilst I make money fixing conventionals my profits from fixing movers are non-existent, only movers used in nightclubs get a hard life,theatre units seem to be very reliable.so to get back to the original posting by all means get some movers if your school is going to let the students play with them and the teachers are willing to spend the time.If the school or the teachers aren't up to it then don't bother.

[Bean]

Hi all readers

Consider the scenario: a school, not too large, very small stage area, very small budget, not used all that much. Now the question..... I notice that there are moving yoke lights of 150W or perhaps 250W by manufacturers such as Chauvet. Now I know these are probably intended for the club market but given the scenario above might they be worth purchasing for use on a school stage. They come in at much lower prices that Martin, Coemar, Clay Paky etcetera. Opinions are welcome please.

thanks

Graham

Movers are a great thing for schools, but, you need to consider a few things first:

 

a) Are the teachers and students interested in learning about movers and lighting in general?

b) What are you intending to use them for?

c) How big is the space?

d) What power do you have available?

e) What do you have already?

f) Maintenance

 

Let me elaborate:

 

a) If no-one is going to learn to use them are play with them, forget it, hire them with operator when you want them.

 

b) In most cases Washes are more useful: side-lighting dance, front-lighting drama, putting colours around a room.

Profiles however give you: A Re-focusable special, a powerful back-light, effects with gobos, nice beams through smoke.

Do you want a powerful spot or a flexible special that blends in?

 

c) Is the stage deep? More washes for dance.

Is it a long throw? More powerful lamps.

Is it used by other parties? No floor rigging.

 

d) Once you've decided what your needs/wants are,

Do you have the power to drive them?

Is that power dedicated to them?

Is the any other sockets on the circuit that people may want to use? If an urn is on a circuit loaded with movers it could trip.

 

e) Do you have a massive stock of profiles to use? Get Washes

Do you have a bright wash of 4 colours front and cyc? Get profiles.

Is there 4 three phase sockets but only 3 dimmers? Why not get another dimmer/generics??

Do you have a desk that could support movers? Do you need a new one? (They're only $200-500 for a cheap one)

Is there enough signal cable or do you need more?

 

f) Movers can be very low Maintenance if you get the right ones, the Oby 600 work for me as washes, As the Vary-4 Compact work as profiles, Super-leo for the cheapy profile and microscan for performance profile, less than a bi-annual service, if at all.

The teacher may consider taking a one day course on Maintenance and save him/herself alot of money on the easy stuff like sensor alignment, before needing to consult a professional repairer

 

Those are the most obvious points I could remember when choosing your lights, But if you can meet most of the requirements (mainly budget and student/teacher interest) go for it! Students should learn as much as they can about all aspects of theatre including movers.

 

P.S. I'm 14 and I am a Certified Martin Mac Servicer Level 1, which includes trouble-shooting igniter problems, but I agree that internals of a robotic lamp should probably be left for a specialised course, rather than part of a standardised course which include students that don't really care, like paulears said:

Maybe as after hours activity with the keen ones - but with a general class? No way. They would wreck the kit the moment your back was turned.

[tokm]

rather than part of a standardised course which include students that don't really care

Exactly! I never meant to imply that movers get stripped down and have all the parts cleaned by people doing GCSE electronics! Only by people who have a keen interest in the area.

 

I noticed people were saying about teachers and them not being specialists in theatre technology and its often them who are responsible for running sound & LX with students. This is kinda of why I said:

supervised by someone that the institution feels is qualified.

I didn't say 'just some teacher who did lighting at the student union, 10 years ago' At most of the schools Ive done shows at, its often someone who feels they as well as the school, are up to supervising technical activities and of course if the O/P's school venue didn't have someone that was either knew about ML maintenance or wasn't prepared to go on a training course then its just one of the reasons why the school maybe shouldn't spend their money on that type of kit and opt for more generics or sound kit maybe.

 

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm being overly aggressive on this whole issue, its just that I feel very strongly about the subject. (here comes the sob story hehe) When I was at school we had plenty of great kit inc. movers & effects, but we never got a chance to do much of anything with it.. And I feel that the same is true at plenty of other schools today, mainly because of a lack of understanding from teachers and school staff that lighting a show takes time and rigging isnt something that can be done in 5 minutes. I really think that technical theatre should be more prominent in schools than it is! Its an area that more and more young people are getting interested in, why not encourage them? Also, David A said its often the class troublemaker who takes up the challenge 1st (ohh that was me a few years ago :D) So in this day and age when kids are just kicked out or given up on, why not (unless their really bad kids) give them and others the opportunity to do this kind of stuff.

 

Oh and BTW Beans, wow your articulate for 14year old! Also, great list of considerations, probably the best Ive ever seen the questions summed up.

 

Tom

 

*Edit - Added sentence at the end about best list..*

[Ynot]

Snipped interesting bit from Bean

P.S. I'm 14 and I am a Certified Martin Mac Servicer Level 1, which includes trouble-shooting igniter problems,

Very well put together response, Bean.

To be honest, the most sensible post from a 14-year old I think we've seen - you've typed well beyond your years!

However, in the real world that I think Paul referred to, the chances of finding a half-competent teacher in many UK schools who has the knowledge and background in tech theatre are VERY slim, I'd say.

 

I've aided and abetted many schools over the years, from primary up to secondary, and whilst there has been a definite increase in the interest from pupils willing to learn, the ability of the schools to provide solid support outside of specific courses at colleges is sadly lacking.

 

And when you also consider the amount of access the kids have to the kit and safety at height etc, they don't often get the chance to practice too much.....

 

By the way - from the two quotes, can we assume that you're father & son, David & Sean?

Or is this just a coincidence??

 

my 14 yr old son did a one day martin course on maintenance and can clean and do basic maintenance on our trucked around hire stock.

P.S. I'm 14 and I am a Certified Martin Mac Servicer Level 1,

[Bean]

By the way - from the two quotes, can we assume that you're father & son, David & Sean?

Or is this just a coincidence??

 

my 14 yr old son did a one day martin course on maintenance and can clean and do basic maintenance on our trucked around hire stock.

P.S. I'm 14 and I am a Certified Martin Mac Servicer Level 1,

Ahh, I've been found out!

Yes, David A is my father.

[tokm]

So after all that grief about kids and movers and it shouldn't be allowed.. we find out that the mans own son engages in such activities and's been trained how to do exactly the stuff I was saying kids should be allowed to do with movers :D Its all one big conspiracy I say!

 

the boy who took to the lighting quickest was the class troublemaker

Any reference to you Bean :)

 

Tom

[David A]

Its actually the other way round, bean knows how to run the colortran innovator and the martin lightjockey and the scanmaster 2 while I run off conventional desks as I usually use movers as remotely focusable and multicolourable fixed lights, he gets all the fun work.

[Bean]

When it comes to movers, I taught Dad everything he knows...

And vica-versa for conventionals.

[Tomo]

To be fair, such kids are few and far between.

 

I've volunteered at various schools for various things, and I've met a lot of kids who shouldn't be trusted with a soldering iron.

 

I've also met a few kids who are extremely interested and have the capability to become reasonably competent with appropriate tuition - but these have definately been in the minority.