five_pin_xlr Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 about the leatherman, I too have a Leatherman WAVE, and always have it on my belt, but only when I need it. I have asked local police officers on many occasions if it is allowed in public, only if it is in its pouch or you need to use it can it be with you, as you need it for your job and mostly every day life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilf dLampy Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 A solicitor friend of mine also reckons that, by the time you actually got your Leatherman, Swissy or Gerbil out of it's carrier and opened one of the blades up (In self defence of course M'lud...)- your assailant would have already kicked the c**p out of you or stabbed youI'd agree with that, especially as I'd probably end up trying to attack said assailant with the handle off the scissors or something for getting stuff out of horses hooves Personally I wear my gerber in the little belt holster- which to most people looks not dissimilar to a mobile phone holder- at times when I need it, or am going somewhere I do. When I go down the pub after work I either leave it somewhere safe like a locker or put it in my bag. It may not be an offensive weapon (especially after a few beers), but it's easier not to have it and not get in any trouble.Also, there is the theory that if someone did attack you and you didn't pull out a knife (because it was in your bag), it's less likely that they/their friends would escalate to weapons. Do people act the same with 4/5/6D Maglites? They could also be classed as an offensive weapon, albeit a bit harder to conceal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 The reason the Technician in question was arrested was due to the fact he left the theatre, with the crew and decided to go for a beer. On entering the pub he was stopped by the doorman, taken to one side and the police called. I am talking about this second hand as I havn't seen the person in question to get his side of the story direct. BUT after knowing this person for over 10 years and having had him calm me down with bouncers and police officers in the past I cannot see him commiting any other offence to warrent him being arrested. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 [Do people act the same with 4/5/6D Maglites? They could also be classed as an offensive weapon, albeit a bit harder to conceal.All this fuss over 'offensive weapons' is so much over the top over-reaction from the nanny-state politicians. IMHO, if a yob is intent on a) carrying a knife and/or b) attacking another person, he/she will do regardless of whether the law prohibits it or not - yobs unfortunately are like that and always have been/will be. OK, the average honest Joe/Jane in this country would not think of 'carrying' for protection. We've not quite gotten that far down the US road where citizens have 'the right to bear arms' (ie hand guns) for their own perceived protection. Hopefully we never will. But as for offensive weapons, it will come as no surprise that almost ANYTHING could be deemed as an offensive weapon. But as with all things, it's not the object that does the damage, it's the PEOPLE. I can make an offensive (or indeed DEfensive) weapon out of a newspaper. Simply roll it up tight and you have a VERY effective club or jabbing instrument. This was a regular recommendation to people who felt they may be unsafe walking roads where they may find trouble. A dog's lead could be used as a garotte. Don't ask what an umbrella can do!! Personally, I often carry my mini-Leatherman in my pocket (or at least did before I lost it for the third time!!). It's less than 3 inches altogether, but is one of the most useful tools I've ever owned. It got used for everything from pulling staples out to trimming my nails. But I would never have called it an offensive weapon because I don't deem myself an offensive person. Could I do damage with it to another person? Certainly. But I could probably do more damage with a dog's lead, umbrella or even a rolled up copy of the Times....!! Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_H Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Most days I have my leatherman on my belt, for the first time in a while I took it off yesterday, I knew this was a good decision when I was stop searched by police at Leeds train station yesterday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lightnix Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Do people act the same with 4/5/6D Maglites? They could also be classed as an offensive weapon, albeit a bit harder to conceal.Anything can be classed as an offensive weapon, if it is used as such; even an egg, if thrown at somebody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 I suppose the reason I asked originally is mere laziness. I'd rather not take my belt on and off continuously in order to attatch the leatherman and pouch at the beginning and remove it at the end of a day's work. I suppose its my own fault for wearing my leatherman on the buckle side of my body, which entails full belt removal. Of course I could just wear my belt the other way round (can never remember if there is a 'proper way' anyway), or leave the pouch on without leatherman in it, but that just feels weird. All in all it just worries me slightly that I might get stopped on the way home with it still on me, and if its worth getting some form of letter written to explain that it is a tool of my trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_s Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Seeing as I seem to have inspired this thread, I'd like to contribute THIS to the discussion. (it talks about the 2004 amendment to the 1988 Act) I think the 3 inch rule, as far as I can work it out, only applies if the item in question is NOT being used as an offensive weapon, and it doesn't define a blade of less than 3" as definitively a "non dangerous work tool". We all know it's possible to do extreme damage with a stanley knife blade at 27mm, but a stanley knife is an essential tool without which we couldn't do our jobs. I've also met the man in question albeit very briefly, but my first impression was that he is not a knife-wielding maniacal threat to society. However, it's simple enough to take the knives off our belts and leave them at work - perhaps for freelancers a bit more complicated - but most people have a tool bag or box they can put tools in while travelling to and from jobs, don't they? I'm not going to get into the "we don't (?) live in a totalitarian state - why should we all be treated as criminals" debate - the fact is there are plenty of people around who do fall into the psychopath category described above. Clearly, if you're not "carrying" a knife, you can't possibly be one of those, if you are "carrying" (by which I mean in a holster on a belt or somewhere equally easily accessible), then you might be; and any sensible risk assessment has to consider that possibility. that's the "do as I say, not as I do" bit over with.... I'll own up to wearing my leatherman "out of doors" pretty often, though I do try and remember to take it off when I go home these days. If I was to be challenged, I'd probably follow Lightnix' course of action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lightnix Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Have a look at this thread in the most excellent British Blades forum. It's a site for knife makers and collectors and they are pretty clued up on knife laws around the world. The thread repeats the chunk of the 1988 Criminal Justice Act quoted by AndrewR, but continues......For a knife to be a folding pocket-knife within the meaning of this section, it must be readily and immediately foldable at all times, simply by the folding process. A lock-knife, which required a further process, namely activating a trigger mechanism to fold the blade back into the handle, was held not to be a folding pocket-knife (Harris v DPP [1993] 1 All ER 562)...So, a locking blade makes it "not a penknife". Also...The fact that a defendant has forgotten that he has with him an article to which s 139 applies does not constitute a defence of good reason......Interpretation of the ordinay everyday use of “for use at work” is not a matter of law but it is for the justices to decide for themselves what the phrase means in the context of the case...Be especially careful if you work in schools...139A Offence of having article with blade or point (or offensive weapon) on school premises (1) Any person who has an article to which section 139 of this Act applies with him on school premises shall be guilty of an offence... The thread also links to other relevant legislation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete LD Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 I suppose the reason I asked originally is mere laziness. I'd rather not take my belt on and off continuously in order to attatch the leatherman and pouch at the beginning and remove it at the end of a day's work. I suppose its my own fault for wearing my leatherman on the buckle side of my body, which entails full belt removal. Of course I could just wear my belt the other way round (can never remember if there is a 'proper way' anyway), or leave the pouch on without leatherman in it, but that just feels weird. sounds like an easy answer, putting it on the other side of you body or putting you belt on backwards. wrong! it will mess with your head if you have spent the last how ever Many years reaching for the same place but now you will find nothing and your brain wont except that its on the other side! I couldn't cope when for some unknown reason I put my letherman and mag lite the wrong way round (probably the morning after a lot of Stella)! it had to be changed!!Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jram Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Since no one else has referenced it, and I studied it when I did Law at uni, according to the Carrying of Knives etc. (Scotland) Act 1993: (5) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (4) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) above to prove that he had the article with him - ( a) for use at work; ( b) for religious reasons; or ( c) as part of any national costume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Be especially careful if you work in schools...139A Offence of having article with blade or point (or offensive weapon) on school premises (1) Any person who has an article to which section 139 of this Act applies with him on school premises shall be guilty of an offence...H3LL'S TEETH! How am I supposed to work AT ALL, if I can't carry a tool? Opening packaging, stripping wire, cutting carpet/wood/whatever. More reading for me I think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomLyall Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 139A Offence of having article with blade or point (or offensive weapon) on school premises. Pencil anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_s Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Last thought - I was allowed onto the Millennium Eye with mine fixed to my belt with no questions asked - and that was after the standard body search!My 70 year-old Mum had to hand over the nailscissors from her handbag before they would let her through......I wasn't carrying my leatherman, gerber or folding stanleyknife, so I was OK. Mods:- Quotes mended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dj Dunc Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Ok, so I dont do this normally, but one day when we had a whole day ( no lessons or out of venue time) I took my leatherman into school as we routinely need pliers and cable tie cutting stuff. I never got pulled up for it, but I just thought that I'd better leave it in my work case when on breaks, but even so at the start and end of the day and during lunch, even when the headmaster was there he didnt complain. This just goes to prove, that in schools, if you are the right person, who uses a tool properly, and keeps it hidden from general view, then its safer to have it than an unruly yob running round a class with scissors with a supply teacher etc etc. How is a caretaker to work in a school without having a gerber/leatherman to hand. I know of one incident where a large display board came free of its holdings (there was no class present until two minutes later) and if a caretaker had to a) find incident b) find solution c) find tools then the class could have come in, and a child been injured, but in this case, he had his leatherman on him, and cut the board down, saving risk to people. Now I think that is just common sense MODS: delete/amend if this post doesnt make sense cos im just a bit tired and have a 6am start tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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