Carrying an offensive weapon

[MarkPAman]

Several years ago I was walking home from work one night I thought (as one does) that a kebab would finish off the evening rather nicely. As I stood waiting for it to be cooked, I was surrounded by the staff of the shop, all holding their rater large knives.

"Why have you got a gun?" they asked me.

What I actually had was a leatherman and a maglight, just peeping out from below my shirt.

Turned out OK, though I've wondered since what would have been the outcome if they'd called the police rather than confronting me. :(

[Pete McCrea]

Sheesh! Sounds like you had a lucky escape.......

[dogcop]

As my real job involves me nicking anyone in possession of an offensive weapon I suppose I must add my 2p to this thread.

 

Technically anyone carrying a leatherman can be lifted for possession of an offensive weapon. However most reasonably minded coppers ( I like to associate myself in this category) would then ask questions as to why a person has such an item on their person.

The answer "I've got it for self defence" will earn you a spell in the cells for certain.

But, as I suspect, the fact you've been working etc, that you can prove that fact, then most reasonably minded coppers will just take your details and thats it.

 

Personally I have far better things to do than lift someone for carrying a leatherman, but I cannot speak for the officer concerned in this particular case.

In fact being a dog handler I use one frequently on duty .............. but thats another story

 

HTH

Andy

[Panzerman]

Has this chap who was arrested been to court yet?

If he is the sound (of mind) fellow as declared here, I would like to think he would be able to stand up in court and defend himself and vicariously, the rest of us who carry these items. It's the sort of thing that trade union lawyers live to fight in court. (And we're all in a trade union right? Duh, no, that's another discussion, and the answer for me, at least is "no"! Anyhow....)

 

I have my Wave on me pretty much all the time, I feel naked without it, and I DO use it every day, and not just at work. Were I to be pulled and searched, I think the best thing for me to do would be to stay calm and collected, and not to rant on about "Police states" or my rights, whatever my thoughts on the subject. Were things to escalate and I appear in court, I wouldn't want any Rozzer pulling out CCTV of me getting agitated or quoting my diatribe thus "proving" I am a nutter teetering on the edge of knifing someone.

I was interested to see that people had been told "not to do it again" when stopped at a station. I think that shows that there is no legal standing for the police to prevent you carrying such items. Of course they would rather you didn't do it, but legally, they have no powers if you are carrying discretely and sensibly. (Once upon a time, they tried to tell me in a phone call that they "preferred" me to be a member of a shooting club when renewing my shotgun licence, in such a manner that I thought it was a requirement. In fact they had no legal basis for this, it simply made things tidier when it came to keeping tabs on gun ownership)

 

It has been rightly said how anything can be an offensive weapon, the aforementioned rolled and folded newspaper (or "Chelsea Brick") is extremely effective, so your attitude can have a lot to do with whether the law takes an interest in you. Pulling out your Leatherman and opening the blade in one fluorish with your thumb, in order to peel an apple in the middle of town is asking to be nicked. Being technically legal carrying a penknife doesn't mean you have to let everyone know you have it on you.

 

Finally, a little tale for you. When I woke up and looked out of my hotel window to see two gents unloading my van, I pulled my boots and shorts on and as I crashed through the door, I stopped long enough to go back to grab my phone, and take my Leatherman out and throw it onto the bed. It was the only presence of mind I had, I knew that there wouldn't be much of a discussion when I got to the van, and being furious, I didn't want to be tempted to flash a blade about. Flying into a situation alone like that wasn't very clever, it did result in violence, but thankfully surprise and adrenaline made sure I came off on top! Might have been a different story if I had been tooled up, I would possibly be doing time now!

[Renny]

For what it's worth I don't see any reason to have a multi tool with you 24 hours a day. If you want to wear one at work then fair enough but why do you have to wear it there and back? I have a Gerber that was a gift. It lives in the glove compartment of my car as an emergency tool. If I am doing anything in work I get proper tools from my toolbox. the extra few minutes travel are generally saved by the job being completed faster with correct tools for the job. I don't get the whole "Batman utility belt" approach that some people adopt.

[Ynot]

.......one night I thought (as one does) that a kebab would finish off the evening.........

Sheesh! Sounds like you had a lucky escape.......

Ummmmm...

Was that really an unintentional pun there......??

:)

[Pete McCrea]

How long did it take for someone to spot that......

 

As for me? I usually keep Larry in a bag, and strap him to my side as and when I need him. That way I minimise any issues if I get hauled up, and less likely to accidentally loose it.

 

The only time I've ever been hauled up for my tools was at a Tim Westwood gig. Overnight the gestapo appeared. From absolutley sod all security, by the time we got on site on the morning of the gig there where legions of them. They loved our tool cases- "what do you need all this for?!?" - well have you ever tired fixing a dodgy lead with a plastic fork from catering? Thought not....

[SeanT]

In a room with:

Tony Blair

Princess Anne

 

International Children's Games

On an aeroplane (I did have to put it in the hold on the way back, but it wasn't picked up at B'ham in my laptop bag, forgot I had it TBH)

London underground (in my bag)

Christ knows where else

 

Times when leatherman has been on my belt or person, and no-one minded - I wear it all the time at work, as I genuinely need it, and will not be told otherwise - was also wearing it earlier when I was pulled over by the old bill, they didn't even notice.

 

Wearing it up the pub however is nowt short of idiotic....

 

On the subject of wearing "on the way to work" - you mean in the van for a 5 minute drive in I should tuck it in the glovebox??? or that I should take my bag when I cycle to avoid wearing it? On the way to work unless by aeroplane seems a perfectly reasonable time to be wearing one if one has no other belongings to take.

[Bryson]

For exactly this reason, mine goes in the top desk drawer every night before I go home. Well, that and I keep forgetting it if I take it home...

[foh_al]

On an aeroplane (I did have to put it in the hold on the way back, but it wasn't picked up at B'ham in my laptop bag, forgot I had it TBH)

 

Things could have got pretty hairy if they'd noticed that!

 

A few months after all the cabin luggage restrictions came in post-9/11, I had to fly to the USA. I got up late, hastily reheated last night's takeaway, and grabbed a fork to eat it on the drive to the airport. When I finished, and thinking nothing of it, I wrapped the fork up in the tin foil dish and put that in the rucksack I was carrying.

 

At the security checkpoint, I put the bag on the X-ray machine, and after it went through they took me to one side to search it. The security officer immediately went for the foil dish, opened it up and removed the (sticky, food-encrusted) fork, which was then confiscated and disposed of! The staff were sympathetic (it was pretty obvious that I had genuinely slipped up), and I was allowed to continue my journey without any problem.

 

As for wearing the Leatherman on the drive to work, I consider it and its belt holster as much a part of my clothing as my belt and boots; when I put my trousers on, the Leatherman goes on. Previously that would have applied however I was travelling, but in the current political climate I wouldn't risk carrying it on my belt if using public transport.

 

Alex

[sonic]

A couple of years ago leaving the Einburgh Festival, I met some guy I'd been working with. One of them had completely forgotten to pack her leatherman in her hold luggage and they found it while going through security... because of this incident I know like edinburgh Airport!

 

the guy who found it offered to post it to her, what a nice bloke!

 

Does anyone else get that little anxiety attack as you walk past the knife decleration box? I can't help it - every time I walk past my mind races wondering if I've got anything on me!

 

They tried to confiscate a little tiny flathead screwdriver last year... but then they gave it back to me?!

 

I think also, someone got done for having one during last years fringe festival... I seem to recall a memo going out to all the technicians warning us not to carry them - I did, never got caught! In fact it was the only thing keeping me from being cmopletely terrified while walking through the meadows at 3am... scary place!

[paulears]

hang on - this is exactly what gets the things a bad name in the first place. Until this thread started, I'd never considered it anything other than a tool.Maybe I'm too old, but the idea of using my leatherman for personal protection has never even entered my head. This bit:

In fact it was the only thing keeping me from being cmopletely terrified while walking through the meadows at 3am... scary place! worries me to death - 3am, dodgy place, have leatherman out ready to use in a completely unjustified manner. If it is that bad, get a damn taxi! Something like a leatherman would certainly be classed as an offensive weapon if you mean to poke somebody with it, even in self-defence. If it is folded up, in the pouch, it probably isn't as you can't get at it quickly.

 

I really can't subscribe to the idea that carrying a weapon, even for self-defence is justifiable. And make no bones about it, if you even consider for a moment that it is a weapon, and you have it, then you're guilty and that is that. They are tools - use them as such.

[Modge]

If we really need to carry something for self defence make it a walking stick and no one (even on a plane) will never question it. A multitool on the other hand takes ages to get out and if you manage to do so is still fairly Useless. I say this because stabbing some one is never going to be self defence - even if your lucky and they live you'll have difficulty convincing anyone that it was reasonable force. Further more if you are unused to using a knife as a weapon then there's fair chance that you'll get it stuck in you instead. The only time I've ever seen anyone daft enougn to usee a pen knife in a fight they had it kicked out there hands and they promptly recieved a good kicking (at the hands of someone who aside from that had shown the ability to fight there way out of a paper bag). Lastly as has been mentioned lots of people get stabbed with there own knives every year. In short AJ or Podgers would be more use as weapons than a multitool, but then most things things that are used as tools are pretty dangerous as weapons. Your adverage biulder carries a massive selection of weapons (I've heard of at least one guy who took to carrying his hammer (in his tool belt) when he was on the tube late at night). Any treating of a tool as a weapon however makes it a weapon. This isn't to say I don't walk around outside of work (on my way to and from, luck breaks etc. even the pub afterwards) with tools on my belt, but it's always been for want of somewhere better to leave them.

[Brian]

...Any treating of a tool as a weapon however makes it a weapon...

Indeed. And just to go away from multitools for a mo'. If you're ever unlucky enough to feel the need to investigate a noise at home at night then may I suggest you don't pick up a cricket bat but use a frying pan instead. "Why did I hit the intruder with a frying pan? Well, I was in the kitchen making a late-night bacon sarnie when I heard a noise so I went to investigate. It all happened so quickly that I didn't think to put the pan down." sounds more convincing that any reason you can think of for carrying a cricket bat about your house at night. It's all about pre-meditation you see. Not that I'd ever recommend anyone doing anything like that at all.

[Ekij]

Indeed. And just to go away from multitools for a mo'. If you're ever unlucky enough to feel the need to investigate a noise at home at night then may I suggest you don't pick up a cricket bat but use a frying pan instead.

I keep a 4D Cell maglight beside the bed. It's much better to carry round the house investigating strange noises. Having the the frying pan in the kitchen might make sense but not in the bathroom!

 

However if you hear someone in the house the best thing to do is to make lots of noise yourself and give them the time to scamper. It's just not worth risking getting seriously injured to protect your VCR!