Tallescopes

[Chris Higgs]

Hear, hear.

[stoketech]

In response to the report I submitted to our new h&s chappy, he has accepted that we move the tallescope with people up it and has apologised for jumping straight in to ban it without consulting any technical managers. He is now in consultation with the HSC about the correct use of Tallescopes.

So really the jury is still out, but at least we can still carry on as before!

[Brian]

He is now in consultation with the HSC about the correct use of Tallescopes.

It'll be very interesting to see what they say. I think I can guess though....

[Pete]

Afternoon all,

Reading my copy of Stage Screen and Radio,in which there is a section about tallescopes,apparently ATG and Live Nation,have decided that they're employee's may be moved whilst in a tallescope basket.

Can any employee's confirm that?

Also....

 

Apparently Frank Partingdon of Aluminium Access Products says the arguments not about whether its safe or not.....

 

Well surely that is what the arguments about!

 

Said magazine also makes another good point,there is no alternative out there at the moment.

 

Unless you sell ESCA 2000s! :huh:

 

Pete

 

edited to fix typo

[paulears]

I suspect AAP know it's far safer than poeple are saying, but with a horde of high power, big budget lawyers ready to pounce, I don't think they will change their opinion - and if the manufacturer says no people up top when moving, this is a big stumbling block. ATG have no doubt taken advice too, and they seem confident that the activity is safe, when performed under controlled circumstances.

 

I know this is OT, but the extent that H&S now gets itemised and examined extends to amazing levels. There is a 30 turbine windfarm, near me - just offshore - the government report into the operation dealt with amazing details about power output, reliability, repairs, access and in one paragraph gave a summary of injuries during the year to the people running and servicing them - one cut to the finger! If a multi-million pound project is analysed this closely, then any activity that could cause injury must be a target for intense scrutiny.

[Simon Lewis]

If a multi-million pound project is analysed this closely, then any activity that could cause injury must be a target for intense scrutiny.

 

Well, to quote HSE's own website, "Falls from height kill about 70 workers a year and seriously injure another 4,000. Falls from height are the most common cause of death and the second most common cause of major injury to employees". Granted, the most dangerous industries are construction and agriculture, but it doesn't bode well for us when the HSE run a campaign to reduce these figures, and the entertainment industry says, actually, we'd like to ignore the manufacturer's advice....

[stoketech]

as an employee of ATG, I can confirm that we are continuing to focus using the exsiting method of moving the tallascope whilst the basket is occupied. Each theatre has been issued with an approved method statement and risk assessment.

 

In response to the comment about falls from height, it is far more likely that a person will fall from the ladder of a tallescope than from a basket, so asking someone to increase the amount of times they have to climb the ladder would dramatically increase the likely hood of falling. I would suggest that the manufactorers of Tallescope cannot condone the use of pushing the 'scope whilst the basket is occupied else they would become liable for all accidents resulting from that useage.

[jamie.west]

Please all jump to correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I was aware it's a manufacturers recomendation that you don't move a tallescope with someone in the basket. I assume as long as a risk assesment and method statement is produced we can carry on doing what we've always done...

[gareth]

I'm sure it's been said before and that you'd find it if you read this topic and the others on the BR that relate to tallescopes - but basically, if you're using a piece of equipment in a way that's contrary to the manufacturer's recommendations, and there's some sort of an incident, the HSE will take an extremely dim view of the fact that you as a user thought that you knew better than the manufacturer.

[paulears]

Theatrical use of tallescopes is not the type of thing they normally get used for - I'd suggest most people who own one, trundle it to where it's not needed, climb, and then put it away. We use them in ways that are different - for us what we do makes commons sense, does appear to be safe when correctly done and the appropriate RAs and satements done - as ATG appear to be doing.

 

I can't see the manufacturers making any exceptions to their recommendations, and that is the problem. If the manufacturer does not validate the process, the HSE are bound to have issues. Let's hope ATGs stance sets some kind of rubrik that everyone can follow.

[Roderick]

I'd suggest most people who own one, trundle it to where it's not needed, climb, and then put it away.

 

Somehow this doesn't make sense to me.......... :D

[Tomo]

I think paulears means:

 

"I'd suggest most people who own one, trundle it to where it's needed, climb, and then put it away. "

 

And many of these users would be outdoors on non-uniform surfaces:

http://www.skyreachaccess.com/admin/uploads/images/%7B4C1FEBF1-8312-4F3B-B4F7-8F5EB29C9EF2%7D_82.jpg

 

A theatre is indoors on a uniform (although not necessarily level) surface with a great many locations requiring access, which is a very special case.

 

The new risk assessments done by ATG et al. indicate this special case is the reason - they assessed the risk of falls due to tiredness and repetitive climbing of the ladder to be greater than the risk of a tallescope collapse during occupied movement, as long as certain precautions and operating practice is followed.

 

It would be interesting to find out if any tallescopes have ever toppled over - my guess is that they haven't, because we'd have heard about it!

[Seano]

Theatrical use of tallescopes is not the type of thing they normally get used for

I've often heard that said (seen it written), but I don't think I've ever seen a tallescope in use outside of a theatre. Even if theatrical use is a minority of the market for tallescopes, I can't believe its an insignificant one.

 

And the picture above is a very good example of the sort of thing that I've never seen anyone use a tallescope for.

Van mounted platforms, trailer mount platforms, ladders, even zip up towers, but never a talle. Which is just as well really. Given the piss-poor placement of the outriggers in that picture (presumably to save having to make a bit of space and put down a base pad to bring them round to 90degrees where they may actually be useful), you can't help wondering what's under the wheels that can't be seen in the shrubbery. Even if they're parked on something firm and level nestling in the undergrowth, its hardly the best example of how a talle' should be used.

 

Edit: took the picture out: not much point having the same image in two consecutive posts.

[Colin]

I am sure it is just my eye sight but do the two wheels on the road look like they are off the ground?

 

Moderation: quote snipped.

[Seano]

I am sure it is just my eye sight but do the two wheels on the road look like they are off the ground?

 

Oh my giddy aunt, I hadn't noticed, but I think you might be right:

http://www.deepsoup.f2s.com/BR/tallezoom.jpg