mac 250's

[djwiltsh]

if anyone knows any sorts of smoke machines, fluid or dry ice, that might not set the alarms off, I'd love to know.

I'm afraid that such a thing is impossible.

If the smoke detectors cannot be turned off or switched over to "heat" mode due to local fire regs, then you're stuck with no smoke.

 

Although you may find that haze is OK. We use a Martin Magnum hazer with jem pro haze fluid, and have never had a problem with the fire alarms, whereas smoke machines set them off really quickly.

 

Dan

[pete LD]

Although you may find that haze is OK. We use a Martin Magnum hazer with jem pro haze fluid, and have never had a problem with the fire alarms, whereas smoke machines set them off really quickly.

 

Dan

if smoke sets them off so will haze. if there is no way of isolating then don't use any airborne mist. it will all come down on you when the dance gets stopped and 4 fire engines turn up! although the girls love it! it annoys me when new systems are put in to that sort of venue and they don't see there ever being a need to use smoke!

 

re. UV your best and easiest way is a 400v UV cannon. there very bright and you can hire them cheaply and you can buy them for not much more! fantastic effect. if you can get some UV paint or UV strip stuff you can get some fantastic effects.

hth

Pete

[dwh]

Also for reference, the things get pretty hot, so obviously make sure there's no curtains near them, and that they're not pointing at the wall next to them for long periods of time

 

Oh, and a cheapish UV cannon is definitely the easiest way to get some UV in; ask your hire company

[greenalien]

Haze machines use a lot less fluid than smoke machines and I have found that they are much less likely to set fire alarms off. Best bet is to hire a haze machine for a day and try it out - well worth the effort if you can get away with it.

 

Personally, I don't like U/V cannons very much - they use a lot of power for the amount of light they emit and run very hot; also the light they emit seems harsh, maybe too much 'hard' u/v frequencies. I'd rather see 4-foot blacklight fluorescent tubes - shop around and you can buy these for around £10 a time, less in bulk, and they will fit cheap batten fittings. Need to have them caged or fitted with diffusers if anyone can get near them though.

[mumbles]

Best bet is to hire a haze machine for a day and try it out - well worth the effort if you can get away with it.

But probably not so worth it when the alarm does go off and the fire brigade turns up, especially when the school recieves a hefty fine.

[dwh]

Personally, I don't like U/V cannons very much - they use a lot of power for the amount of light they emit and run very hot; also the light they emit seems harsh, maybe too much 'hard' u/v frequencies. I'd rather see 4-foot blacklight fluorescent tubes - shop around and you can buy these for around £10 a time, less in bulk, and they will fit cheap batten fittings. Need to have them caged or fitted with diffusers if anyone can get near them though.

I generally find that the 4-foot jobbies just don't have as much throw on them; if you're filling a hall, you're basically going to have to line the side walls:

 4'	4'   4'   4'
----|----|----|----
UV		 UV

Which with any decent size hall adds up to a fair few of them!

 

Mind you, it is nice to have a few kicking about that you can just bring out at will.

[emsgeorge]

And dont forget - larger B&Q's are doing 4 foot tubes for under a tenner each, and are usually a lot less driving to get than the stage hire shops!

[gnomatron]

Don't use haze and expect to not set off smoke detectors, you almost certainly will, and it's a very hefty fine for the fire brigade to turn up! I've set off fire alarms with hazers before.

 

Who's gonna be rigging these 250s? Rigging them sideways is a bit of a pain to do, but the problem is more whether it can be done safely.

You should ask the hire company for advice about rigging them, they're likely to have some helpful advice on the best way to do it, and maybe some useful rigging bits and bobs to ensure you can do it safely. We can't really tell you here if it's safe or not, as we simply can't see your venue, which is the most important factor!

[b1nuzz]

Just to confirm. I have just finished a party, where we used haze in a smoke detector enabled building. 5 minutes after haze being turned on, the fire brigade, quite litterally axed their way through the front door, as we were all on the 4th floor.

 

So, yes, Haze will set off the fire alarm...quickly...

[JonnyP]

Sorry but if you think it won't set off the fire alarms your wrong, it does set them off. Its not worth taking the risk.

One extra things is if the fire brigade get called out and its a false alarm there don't tend to be very happy, also you could end up with a huge bill for wasting there time!!

[dwh]

Sorry but if you think it won't set off the fire alarms your wrong, it does set them off. Its not worth taking the risk.

One extra things is if the fire brigade get called out and its a false alarm there don't tend to be very happy, also you could end up with a huge bill for wasting there time!!

Memories memories memories :o

[Stuart91]

Re. haze and smoke detectors, it's wise to take into account other neighbouring rooms with dectors as well as the units in your actual venue.

 

My local student union had issues at one Christmas ball, where smoke from the venue went out a window, wafted across a courtyard, and set off the detector in a cupboard on the other side of the building. Of course, the connection with the smoke machine wasn't made until the fire brigade arrived and issued a hefty bill for their attendance...

 

 

Also, from earlier in the thread:

 

Get out the trusty AJ and keep tightening untill you think its tight. Then do another turn.

 

Beware of overtightening on truss, especially tri-lite etc. You can easily crush the chords if you go too mad with it.

[saturnx21]

Hi all

Although I have never mounted macs on there side I have installed evl moving heads on there side and they have worked fine now for over a year but I have to say that if you program them to move around (side to side) quickly they have a tendancy to knock as they go over center, so it may be an idear to bear that in mind when programing!

 

As for smoke machines or hazers setting of fire alarms I have used smoke machins in venues with state of the art systems without any problems what so ever! I am allways told by the venue that you carnt use smoke machines as they set off the fire alarms and I allways say to them that if they stand by the control panal wilst I fill the room with smoke and if it sets the alarm they can cancel it and I wont use it and to date I have never set one off so I would recomend a quick test just to be on the safe side!

 

just make sure you make the fire department aware of your test if your system is directly linked to them! (just in case!!!)

 

regards Tristan

[Andrew C]

A couple of days back I typed a considered response to the smoke aspect of this thread, only for the gremlins to get it. Saturnx21 has most of it in his post, the nub of which may be that a "state-of-the-art" system may well not go off, but a 10 year old one could well. A state of the art system will also have addressable heads/zones so local isolation will be possible (if sometimes non-trivial).

 

I had a reptile in from an alarm company a month back who showed me the new Gent Vigilon detector. Four different sensors, strobes (in two colours) and voice evacuation announcement built into each head! These are presenting the F/A industry with a problem. Their smoke-in-a-can no longer sets them off. I was shown a PC display plotting the outputs of the sensors. On application of smoke, one went full scale immediately, the second smoke detector rose a bit, the heat and Monoxide detector didn't flicker. The upshot? No alarm.

 

So in my view, do a test under controlled conditions. Get your building management's buy-in, warn the brigade, maybe even use it as a practise/excersise. If you can use it, it will add immeasurably to the effect.

 

Its been suggested that we are drifting :** laughs out loud **: a bit, but most of us hit this problem at some time, somewhere. ibwats (the OP) did also ask a supplementary question!

[gnomatron]

to continue with the off-topic bit - I mentioned above that I've set off alarms with hazers, but this has indeed only been when someone forgot to isolate the relevant zones at the fire panel. It's always good to see if this can be done, as it'll let you use smoke/haze safely.

 

to go back to the sideways macs - what do folk think is the best way to attach the safety bond in that situation? It may be impossible to do it in a way that would stop the fixture from falling should the primary support fail.