H&S Rampage

[andy_s]

Guarding / cage reccommended for vertical ladders above 2400mm / 8' in old money.

 

Also to be taken into account (see Yellow Book) is means of escape. A vertical ladder is not acceptable as a sole means of escape in the event of an emergency, though it could be a second or alternative means of escape. The Yellow Book is a code of practice, which as I understand it is not binding in law, but represents industry best practice and standards, and it must be demonstrated that alternative control measures are as effective as those indicated in the code of practice.

[David A]

We are getting pages of hypothesis about what might be construed about rules and regulations, this is largely hogwash.As I said earlier you need a written report which details the faults and the relevent rules and regulations and then and only then can you address the problems head on It is irrelevent whether it is you or your teacher does this.H & S is an enforcement of rules, which are invariably sensible unlike the idiots who are sometimes given 'power' to control them.I have had inumerable run ins with these gentlemen [they always seem to be men] and as soon as you ask for the written report the huge problems which were going to close the show suddenly can be resolved with a little co-operation.If you take the advice of some contributors and appease these people they will keep on making your life hell, wheras if you insist on going 'by the book' and them having to justify their actions in writing they will stay out of your way.It is a classic case of the 'bully' syndrome.I have spent 40 totally death and injury free years in this business and I am very consious of my own and my employees safety, but a sensible person working in a situation is always going to be better placed to understand safety issues than a person walking in off the street who feels the need to justify his position.

[andy_s]

OK, sledgehammer to crack a nut time perhaps, but the poster asked about legislation, so have a look at this. working at height regulations. Key phrase might be: "where reasonably practical". The other thing to consider is "is there a need to perform the task?" - playing devils advocate, the H&S rep may take the view that "there is no need for students or pupils to undertake this particular task". If you disagree, then necessary to justify the activity, and produce a risk assesment identifying the risks and the means of minimising them. NB that health and safety is not concerned to eliminate danger, (An unachievable goal) but to minimise and control the risks in any activity. In a regulation, "Shall" indicates "compulsory", otherwise "reasonableness" comes into play.

 

I'm not entirely sure I agree with David's "winstonian" approach to appeasement - I'd prefer to call it "co-operation". But I certainly agree that risk assesments must be carried out by persons who are knowledgeable and competent in the areas being assessed, and not by some "man off the street".

[David A]

the original question was how to address the h&s officer,this is the question I addressed,Andy seeks to divine what the problem may be and what this officer is thinking,I would reaffirm that you must get his opinion in writing and then address the issues[ which could be at a total tangent to all this hypothesis]

[andy_s]

the original question was how to address the h&s officer,this is the question I addressed,Andy seeks to divine what the problem may be and what this officer is thinking,I would reaffirm that you must get his opinion in writing and then address the issues[ which could be at a total tangent to all this hypothesis]

 

I take your point about the risks of speculation, and perhaps I have fallen into this trap: my intention was to suggest that trying to think about any problem from other angles may help solve the difficulty. By all means confront the guy and challenge him to back his opinions up. Or alternatively understand what he's on about and negotiate an arrangement that works for both parties, and possibly get him on side for next time rather than making it a battle of wills.

 

Oh and I hope the original question about relevant legislation may be helped by the link to the HSC regulation. I've pointed out some key phrases which may be useful in discussion with health and safety experts.

[Ynot]

the original question was how to address the h&s officer,this is the question I addressed,Andy seeks to divine what the problem may be and what this officer is thinking,I would reaffirm that you must get his opinion in writing and then address the issues[ which could be at a total tangent to all this hypothesis]

Actually, I'd say that one important thing to note was the fact that (as I read it) the H & S 'nut' in question actually appears to be an internal person within the school...

Which puts a slightly different complexion on the issue compared to an external HSE inspector.

 

Internal H & S officer = possible jobsworth

External HSE inspector = someone to DEFINITELY take notice of!

[ojc123]

... the H&S rep may take the view that "there is no need for students or pupils to undertake this particular task". If you disagree, then necessary to justify the activity, and produce a risk assesment identifying the risks and the means of minimising them.

 

I'm afraid that's the line I've taken in my school. I used to let students up the tower but no more. I'm not sure I could justify it if one of them fell. I'm trained to use the tower but not trained to teach others how. So...

 

ps It's probably H&S officer (who is actually responsible for H&S) rather than H&S Rep (which is a Union position with no responsibility for H&S). I'm our NASUWT H&S Rep so I'm a bit sensitive about the distinction.