Am I too well behaved?

[feeta]

Hi Simon,

 

Yes, sorry, I didn't explain myself very clearly. I meant being attached in the harness via a lanyard to fixed points in the building structure (ie girders, solid rigging points etc)

 

I didn't know whether there is any guidance or requirements to use a harness on a scaffold.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Feeta

[Simon Lewis]

So if the tower falls over, you are left hanging?

[feeta]

Yes. I thought that was what the harnesses were for?

 

As soon as the tower had gone over (presuming it did, rather than just the user falling over the edge of the tower) the 'rescue operation' would take place to recover the person left hanging in the harness.

 

Is that how it works?

[GridGirl]

Yes. I thought that was what the harnesses were for?

 

As soon as the tower had gone over (presuming it did, rather than just the user falling over the edge of the tower) the 'rescue operation' would take place to recover the person left hanging in the harness.

 

Is that how it works?

 

Essentially, yes. If you have someone working at height in a harness, you need to have a rescue plan and equipment to effect said rescue in place - suspension trauma is not a pleasant thing.

[Simon Lewis]

Yes. I thought that was what the harnesses were for?

 

Prevention is placed much higher up in the safety hierarchy than personal protective equipment. It could well be argued that any assessment that shows a harness is necessary has deemed the tower to be unstable, or the work being carried out is likely to topple the tower. I cannot see either being an acceptable approach? Using a harness isn't the right way forward here - making the tower stable and carrying out the work in a more suitable manner is.

 

The intrinsic design and erection of an access tower is based on the structure being stable, and allowing the operator to work safely within the tower. Whereas a harness could be used to tie off to part of the building structure, it introduces a whole new set of problems - not least the need for a rescue plan as GridGirl rightly points out.

 

Furthermore, unless you have sufficient height to fall from, the combined height of person and length of lanyard, and deployed fall arrest system may be more than the distance you have to fall!

 

I'm not knocking the use of harnesses per se - just arguing that this doesn't seem to be the best application.

 

Simon

[feeta]

Ok, no problem, thank you very much for your help. I kind of hoped that we wouldn't need to buy harnesses anyway

 

I just wanted to check whether there are any regulations that say you HAVE to have one.

 

Thanks again :blink:

[Andrew C]

The only useful way a harness could be employed on a tower would be for restraint. Tether the student to the floor of the tower so they CAN'T climb the end rungs above the platform. (I'll bet many of us did this in our younger, more stupid days) Similar systems are sometimes used in window cleaning cradles and cherry pickers.

 

I don't know any details, but have read it somewhere...

[paulears]

Unless I've taken the bait, and this is a joke - you must never tether yourself to anything that is itself unstable. Tethered to a tower would make a slip over the edge have the possible effect of bringing the tower down on top of you. personally, I'd rather the tower fall away from me leaving me hanging, depite the trauma issue we have now just discovered, rather than be actually attached to the damn thing on it's way down!

[Andrew C]

I'll try to find a link.

 

The thinking goes that the tether is so short you CAN'T get off the edge, so falling is impossible.

[paulears]

but what happens when the tower goes over because you unhook a lantern far too heavy, outside the safe CoG? Outriggers might be ok, but what if not. Or, some idiot climbs up the outside, or moves you from the ground, catching the top on an obstruction. I have to say that has happened to me and having the tower suddenly stop and do a small wheelie on two castors, with the outriggers just above the ground is damn scary. lashing somebody at the top so as they can't move away from the 'safe spot' sounds somewhat risky. "yes, your honour. I used approved safety devices to ensure that he couldn't jump and save his life when the large piece of scenery fell onto the tower and knocked it over.

[Andrew C]

I hear what you are saying. Incorporate it in your RA, along with the risk of the person at the top climbing the frame and falling; neither should happen, but they do!

 

I can't find specific tower scaffold references (and I should be doing some work!) but this refers to MEWPs:-

HSE

Restraint

Do you need to use either work restraint (to prevent people climbing out of the MEWP) or a fall arrest system (which will stop a person hitting the ground if they fall out)? Allowing people to climb out of the basket is not normally recommended – do you need to do this as part of the job?

[Simon Lewis]

I studied this subject at some length after one of our church maintenance team purchased a harness from Screwfix to "make it safer for those using the access tower".

 

Their logic was for the user to attach to the tower. I pointed out that the tower a) wasn't designed to take the point load of a person dropping in a harness, b) could conceivably turn over if someone fell out whilst attached to the structure.

 

The situation concerning tieing off to a structure outside the tower is different. I stand by my comments that using PPE to guard against the tower falling due to it being hit or hitting and obstruction, too heavy a load being lifted, or the person being jolted whilst being moved is highly problematic. Whilst I accept that such things might happen, moving the tower when a person (or tools) are on it is contrary to HSE's guidance.

 

By wearing a harness, one is saying that you anticipate the activity will result in the tower being used in such a way that will cause it to fall. This seems at odds with the requirement that the equipment is fit for purpose and must be used within the design limits set by the manufacturers. The fact that it could be safer with a harness might not be a valid argument when pitted against the charge of using access equipment in an "inappropriate" manner.

 

AFAIR, my search did not find any reference to using a harness with an access tower. The reason seems to be that when properly chosen, constructed and used in accordance with the manufacturers and HSE's guidance, there should be no need for a fall arrest system.

 

 

Simon

 

I did see the references regarding MEWPs, but would suggest that that is a different kettle of fish!

[Tomo]

From what I know of MEWPs (general working-at-height training, not an actual MEWP ticket):

 

Ones that go straight up-and-down like the standard Genie generally don't suggest a restraint harness, and many don't have points that a harness could be attached to either.

The boom-arm ones (classic cherry-picker) DO require a restraint harness, as the basket can bounce rather alarmingly when manoeuvring, especially at long extensions.

 

A fall-arrest harness should not be used in either situation, as it's very likely to pull part of the MEWP down on top of you, even assuming you were at such a height that it could deploy before you hit the deck.

 

A scaffold tower would be very similar to a straight up-and-down MEWP, except for the minor detail of not being mobile.

If you were to use a restraint harness up a tower, I don't believe it would mitigate risks either - the time when you are most likely to fall is when you are climbing the tower, and especially as you are moving from the platform to the ladder and vice-versa. During this time, you would not be clipped on anyway.

 

So that sounds like restraint harnesses should NOT be used up a normal scaffold tower - but the key point is this:

 

It would also be very unlikely to have a suitable point to attach a restraint harness.

If there is nowhere to attach a harness, then a harness shouldn't be used.

 

I am of the opinion that it is worse to have a control measure that would not provide the protection it appears to provide, than not to have that protection at all.

So harnesses that don't catch you, and handrails that you cannot lean on are very bad things in my book!

[Chris Higgs]

You shouldn't need any form of PPE when using a properly constructed tower.

Use of work restraint may be appropriate for certain applications, but if you are in a situation where you need to be restrained a tower isn't the place to be...

The suggestion that the tower 'may go over' is an admission that you haven't set it up properly. If it is, and you are working within it's capacity, it won't go over.

 

It is very refreshing to see good and concise advice on work at height topics - a few years ago it would have been a very different story.

Good news on Johnno's tower.

[ojc123]

I found this topic refreshingly clear. I always felt the harness on a tower wasn't a logical approach but I couldn't justify it but I'm a lot clearer in my mind now.

 

So, now we've cleared that up, I'd welcome opinions about whether or not a fibreglass tower is essential/advisable/the last thing you need for hanging lanterns from a fixed installation?