Moving heads to rent out

[copyright]

No to Robe. No to Martin. No to more expensive heads than Martin.

;)

Sorry, but I really don't think you've read the responses to your question!

Buying cheap movers in ANY situation is a poor choice, but for any HIRE stock it's potentially financial minefield.

Cheap Chinese units = little or no support + NO feasible spares supply. What spares you DO get are likely to be inflated to cover the cheap cost of original sale.

You'll be MUCH better off investing in a decent set of known brands that will work first time, carry on working for ages, and be easy to maintain along the way.

This is what I'm looking for. I know what's best. I'm looking for opinions on these cheap chinese ones

If that's the fact, other moving heads than robe, martin etc. can be relied on, I have to bear that in mind when I decide what to buy.

Thanks guys and girls

please still post what you think

[dave singleton]

This is what I'm looking for. I know what's best. I'm looking for opinions

 

With all due respect if you no whats best why are you bothering to ask us?

 

Every single persons responce from the professional world will be the same on this subject. This topics proved that. Many people havent used the cheeper less known movers, so its a bit of a stab in the dark anyway.

 

I dont understand what the problem is. Buying 575w heads I wouldnt go anywhere else mainly because very few companies do them. The other thing that bugs me is second hand Mac 500's/600's can be purchased from Used Lighting for £1000 +VAT. They're also supplied with a flightcase if brought in pairs. This works out CHEEPER than buying new 575 heads from other manufactuers, and will come off better for yourself as you have reliable products, which people will actually hire.

[copyright]

This is what I'm looking for. I know what's best. I'm looking for opinions

 

With all due respect if you no whats best why are you bothering to ask us?

That I know what's best doesn't say I know what else is good. I made this thread to see if you guys had any experience with cheaper brands, if there's any brand out there which is coming strong on the market, competing with robe etc.

Around me, there are only robe's and martin's so I don't have experience with other moving heads than those. That's another reason I'm bothering to ask you ;)

hope I'm not offending anyone by asking professionals (and others) if there are any usable and solid cheap brands on the market. Because I don't know.

[dosxuk]

To slightly twist a well known saying:

Good, cheap or reliable - choose any two

[jayselway]

To be honest, even the low-end Robe stuff I've encountered was pretty duff, and Martin stuff, while good, is far from infallible. It's arguably not the best stuff out there, it's simply the most popular. (and therefore the most profitable for a hire company!).

 

I had some Futurelight moving heads last year, they were quick, quiet and bright, with good effects, however, they failed on the first hiring. There was no fan fault, they were clean, and the room wasn't especially warm - however, they reported that they were overheating most of the time. Needless to say they got sold.

 

Martin stuff I like. It's good to use, looks great, is reliable as long as you look after it, and most importantly, when it goes wrong - it's an easy fix. Components come quickly from Martin dealer, and mostly standard tools will get me into, and back out of a fixture without any worries.

 

That's what I, personally, look for in a unit. Yeah the cheapo's might look ace, and be really really quick, but when they go wrong, you might find that you have to have the entire thing in bits to get a relatively small problem fixed.

 

Around me, there are only robe's and martin's

 

There may well be a very good reason for this - might be worth looking into why they are the only units around you.....

 

Just a thought or two ;)

[Nick S]

I've been thinking for so long in circles so I need your opinion and advice.

No to Robe. No to Martin. No to more expensive heads than Martin.

;)

 

Brands off the top off my head include SGM Giottos, which are highly capable and reasonably respected. Parts aren't that hard to obtain - I know at least one big hire company in Britain who made a decision to use them.

 

 

You talk about the Osiris range in your first post - they are pretty much identical units to the Macs, in both design and function. But they are considerably cheaper. I would never hire one out, or buy one. There's a reason they're so cheap.

 

If you want to buy a cheaper moving head, choose a company that actually has R&D and support departments. I can trust and be happy hiring out Martin, VariLite, Robe, and High End fixtures (which fixture I choose depending on the budget and type of show). There's no way I'd be happy hiring out either a no name brand (GLP) or a clone (Osiris).

 

As I've mentioned above, some hire outlets have stock other than the brands above, but they're never the cheapest solution and they all will have good support.

[lightsource]

Two products to look at are

 

Club Spot / Explorer 575's manufactured under the Showtec brand, (www.showtec.info). The UK distributer is a company called Overt based in Wiltshire. Although I've had no dealings with Highlite nl (the company who owns the showtec brand)

the guys a Overt seem to be a family run business. The Managing Director is called Malcom Burlow.

 

The Dream Light 575 by Proel. Again another european company who sources a lot of product from the far east, bt the company is growing, so they must be doing something right. (www.lighting.proel.com)

 

Never seen or used any of the above, so have no idea what they are like but in the case of Proel it took 5 phone calls and six months to get their catalogue, The price list had the last 50 pages missing, NOT a good start for a potential new customer.... I'd hate to think how fast spares would arrive ;)

 

I think (though please correct me if wrong) that all faulty products have to be returned to base for repair, and with units over 20kg this could be costly in shipping, and the fact that the faulty unit will be out of service for a long time.

 

Sorry I can't help further, I've had no experience with any 'cheap' heads but one point of caution is we have 8 cheap 250w scanners (electrovision colorscan 250 using the A1/259 lamp) which have had less than 100 hours use. One has faulty wiring to the tilt motor, and the gobo's are starting to crack on all of them under the heat. Also the cooling fans are noisy. :P

[Ynot]

That I know what's best doesn't say I know what else is good. I made this thread to see if you guys had any experience with cheaper brands, if there's any brand out there which is coming strong on the market, competing with robe etc.

And I maintain that you've had your answer! Whilst some have HEARD of the cheaper brands, few have USED them for the reasons stated. Those reasons include:

* Poor customer service;

* Lack of or slow delivery of spares;

* Noisy units;

* Unreliable units;

[paulears]

Cheaper/less reliable/whatever products can be used if you want to hire kit out, and maybe you, as you state, won't be dry hiring to strangers, but including yourself in the deal? I've had experience with a bit of PR kit, and value wise, was impressed - the snag, of course is how many you want to keep in stock as spares - as in buy 10 to hire out a max of say, 8? having a hot spare or tow of any non-off the shelf brand is pretty vital. I've got 8 futurelights, now 4 years old, and currently, 4 function as they should, the other 4 having simple, but annoying faults that at some point I'll sort out.

 

What you are trying to do is maximise your buying power, and get the most value (or features) for your money. The big rental houses have a pretty good take on what brands to use, and which to avoid. their reason to avoid certain makes could be different to you, so go ahead and try some of the untested for rental type kit. It's your money, and you might be happy. Ask for guidance here, and the opinion is always the same, spend a little more and get a better product - you can't really knock this advice, it is simple correct. If what you really want to hear is "buy Robe or Martin, but if you're pushed for budget, then buy XYZ they are just as good" you will be waiting a long time!

 

I've had some PR 300's and some follow spots and they work fine. When they stop working, I have a problem. That's the way it is.

[dave singleton]

I still think my poitn about second hand Martin heads wasnt taken in. You can have the best, in very good condition, for cheeper than your likely to pick up new crap heads. Then you will always have the service making it a good investment.

 

Just out of interest, for these 16 heads, whats your budget?

[johnhuson]

No to Robe. No to Martin.

 

I'm sorry but curiosity has got the better of me, just wondering why you are so against purchasing Robe or Martin? Initially I assumed it was a budget issue but then I read

 

No to more expensive heads than Martin.

 

Which to me implies that you have the budget for Martin fixtures, but I'm maybe mis-interpreting what you are trying to say.

 

As for my opinion on your original post, well it's much the same as what has been written before. If as you say your doing mainly full service work then brand will obviously be less of an issue for you. However hire companies buy the big brands not only because that's what people ask for, but because there is the backup/service/parts (well most of the time!) from the larger companies that is required to run a hire stock.

 

To put it bluntly, in my opinion/experience investing in budget brands, particularly the level of budget (i.e. very cheap import) that is being discussed will result in possibly the worst false economy you'll make as a hire company.

 

If budget is an issue then the suggestion to look at second hand, better known brands would probably make more financial sense. But be careful to check the age and their past history to be able to make an informed decision. Ex install units may be cosmetically in good condition, but there's a fairly good chance they've been poorly maintained and as a consequence will probably need more work. Where as ex hire units although might look a little heavily used have probably been well looked after. We, and I'd hazard a guess most other hire companies keep detailed service records for all our moving lights so it's kind of like buying a car with a full service history.

[Pete McCrea]

A point that a seems to have been prety much missed so far is cross hires. You say that if you need Robe then you can go a partner and hire from them. So what about them coming to you?

 

You might find that by having the right brand, that you can generate significant trade cross hire, which could make up for the potential additional costs. And it's not just a local thing. I know of companies that might well ship units from halfway across the country to get matching heads for their stock. You say that you will be ostensibly using the units yourself, but will you realistically use them every day of every week, or would you like to see them out on hire when you don't have gigs? However buying no-name/budget heads will most probably not open up that option.

 

Personally I (as in Production:av) won't now buy units unless they fit in with what other companies have. This might mean buying more expensive units, but if they open up relationships with other companies and can get my kit out when I'm not using it then all the better. Plus it opens up membership of certain clubs i.e. we're in the Christie club- other users of Christie will come to us first to get matching products, even though there may be closer users with a simillar products without the name.

[StevieR]

Personally, I would advise looking down the Robe route for several reasons...

 

a) Robe are about half the price of an equivalent Martin fixture.

b) The AT range is extremely reliable (according to several sources), more so than some of Martin's products.

c) Robe are becoming an accepted standard in the industry, HSL now have a stock of these and we are looking at the products for our hire stock too. Designers are also getting to know the range and ordering these.

d) Support and parts are available directly in the UK.

 

Certainly, in the early days Robe was viewed as the poor man's moving heads but they have worked hard to adapt their products to the degree expected by the professional users.

 

So, in summary - cheaper to buy, cheaper to maintain, getting some healthy industry respect, can be hired out for the same rates as some of the more expensive brands.

 

My 2p...

 

Steve

[Matt Riley]

Hi,

 

Although in this instance, I'd buy ex-hire from one of the big companies, a local hire company has a load of AC lighting tourwash fixtures, which seem to keep up with the mac 250s quite well when used together. I would guess that the tourspots are similarly ok, although from a brief glance ages ago they do lack the spec of the higher end units.

 

*Puts 2p in pot*

 

M

[paulears]

I'd add a comment from Ian, at Viking Lighting. While picking up a repair, I asked him about a pile of moving heads of Chinese origin in the corner - were they for sale? He explained he had them, but wouldn't dream of hiring them out, let alone selling them. I got the feeling that even selling them as old/scrap/used he felt it could harm his reputation as he wasn't in any doubt about the construction. He showed me a couple where the main wiring harness passed directly under the hook clamp mount. With the correct length bolts - not problem, but if you used one of the dozens most of us have lying around, you'd screw straight through the cables.

 

From memory, Viking were a major Martin user, then migrated to Robe - and judging by the number they have, they are pleased with them.

 

I guess my point is that repeat business, through happy clients means kit needs to be dependable and predictable - something difficult without a proper dealer structure, plenty of kits and common spares. Chinese kit is very, very cheap compared to everything else, and is fine - as long as you are willing to treat it as disposable, not repairable.