Moving Heads (Movers)

[Gazlights]

Hahah...now thats funny.... :D

[tom_the_LD]

What it is is that im doing Joseph with another group and got confused between which show I was doing where

[Frag_Me]

I'm sure they are in very safe hands ¬_¬

[Ben Langfeld]

You got confused about which show you were doing, yet you know you want movers in it? I doubt you can have thought about the design much at all. Just throwing in some movers for the sake of it is pretty daft IMO, and I'm sure most people here would agree.

[tom_the_LD]

You got confused about which show you were doing, yet you know you want movers in it? I doubt you can have thought about the design much at all. Just throwing in some movers for the sake of it is pretty daft IMO, and I'm sure most people here would agree.

 

I know I want movers in the house entertainment competition but possibly not for joseph

 

All sorted now......I know exactly what I am having

[Frosty.]

.. weather its to do your work for you or something else!

 

Tom

 

Weather? Or Whether?

I think I would use the latter in this case.

 

Frosty. :o

[tokm]

Weather? Or Whether?

I think I would use the latter in this case.

 

Frosty.

Don't you have better things to do with your time that pick out minor spelling mistakes!? Anyway's its the spell check mistake & I was in a rush. If you have to post, stay on topic please. *rant over*

 

RE the O/P's comments.

 

Movers are useful for shows where their are various acts. Means you don't have to worry about specials, and you can make some nice washes. But I'm afraid I'll have to jump onto the band waggon of people saying it sounds like your in over your head.

 

As you've said these were both school shows, I'm sure theirs some decent down time between these two shows. Sort your design for the one that comes first and some some prep when you can (maybe incorporating parts of the 1st design into the 2nd show if its in the same venue. Saves rigging time!) And then after the 1st show is out of the way/up and running, work on the 2nd show.

 

HTH.

 

Tom

[gnomatron]

I know I want movers in the house entertainment competition but possibly not for joseph

 

All sorted now......I know exactly what I am having

 

After folk trying to help you here, it would be courteous to tell us what you chose in the end and what your rationale was behind it?

 

I for one find local hire availability a major factor in speccing my lighting hires...

[Ike]

Movers are useful for shows where their are various acts. Means you don't have to worry about specials, and you can make some nice washes.

 

I would generally disagree with that. Movers can be useful in some shows that have various acts however 99% of the time I would say they are not.

 

A single mover can hardly ever replace a number of specials; there is no way there positioning can be perfect for every special they replace, complex shuttering and custom gobos are too much work/cost so rarely implemented, colours rarely match the rest of the rig (however that is probably down to poor programming) and frost and silk cannot easily be used.

 

As for washes how many you usually use? Personally I don't have a problem using generics or maybe a few scrollers for even the most complex shows.

[techieguru]

I think with a show like joseph you can go all out in terms of robotic lights, I wouldnt get washes because it limits what you can do with them. depending on how you company is doing the show you can make it look like a rock concert with all of your robotics and still keep it true to the show. so basicly get as many robotics as you can, because you will find plenty of places to use them in this show

[dbuckley]

Worth mentioning, I suppose, that the reference version of Joseph (or the revival, anyway) had movers, though I dont recall them being particularly spectacular.

[Ike]

I think with a show like joseph you can go all out in terms of robotic lights, I wouldnt get washes because it limits what you can do with them. depending on how you company is doing the show you can make it look like a rock concert with all of your robotics and still keep it true to the show. so basicly get as many robotics as you can, because you will find plenty of places to use them in this show

The main priorities for lighting anything of this sort must be to ensure the stage is well lit, the action is clearly visible, the mood is fitting to the scene and other very basic things such as ensuring shadows look natural etc.

 

If you want it to look like a rock concert there are many other ways to do this other than movers and just because you use movers will not necessarily make it look like a rock concert. By specing movers you may well reduce the number of generics you can use by increasing power consumption, weight loadings and cost. Coupled with the increased programming time and experience required as well as potential increased costs in terms of rigging time, desk, splitters and cabling etc then you may well find the quality of the lighting and therefore the show suffers.

 

I'm not saying movers don't have there place and aren't incredibly useful however for many situations they are simply not appropriate. They may well be very useful for Joseph however they should be chosen on the basis of "we need xxx effect and xxx VLs are the most suitable way of creating it" as apposed to "I want any movers I can get my hands on, I'm sure I'll find a use for them"

 

[/rant]

[paulears]

As we say in Suffolk - Squit! Ike is on the ball here.

 

I'm very worried that we are going to soon have movers used for totally the wrong reasons. This might come across as a bit of an old f*rt post, but I've been trying very hard the past few years to make sure that in education the use of movers as prime lighting fixtures is maybe not halted, but put into some kind of perspective.

 

I've got movers in my semi-permanent rig - some with a bunch of stock gobos, and a few wash lights. When people come in, more often than not, I won't even power them up - UNLESS they can do something the others can't. Using an mover - (wherever the term robotic came from - I have no idea), as a kind of solve it all fixture never works properly. Fair enough it can hit an unplanned spot. What it can't do (unless it is really, really expensive) is shutter off a border, have a subtle gel colour and of course - be in the correct place. It isn't where the beam lands - it's where does it come from. I'm happy with the idea that if the people on stage suddenly do something daft like walk out of the light and decide to sing a song there, then a spare head can find them and at least illuminate them.

 

The new breed of lighting designers don't seem prepared to learn their craft, choosing equipment before actually knowing anything about the production it's being used for - and I won't even comment on the LD forgetting which show they are lighting and asking on here for help before they even have their heads in gear.

 

What is wrong with a Fresnel or proper profile, that needs care and attention to focus, but when used correctly give a real quality of light. I've lost count of the number of school shows where they have movers - sometimes blowing huge budget on totally unnecessary kit when it would have been better getting a bit of set, costume or props. Then, of course, in the middle of a really great bit, the damn things suddenly lurch across the stage destroying the atmosphere.

 

When people are at school, and still in compulsory education it is great to see lighting being a real interest - but my question is "what are you actually interested in?". As far as I can see it isn't lighting design at all - its all gear lust - pushing buttons, and creating special effects. people choose user names that are just bizarre, and have lighting equipment in their bedrooms - did somebody say elsewhere they have 8 movers in their bedroom?

 

Sorry guys, but this I find embarrassing. I don't want to stifle enthusiasm, but this is really making me smile - how can I take people seriously when it's so clear that most of what is posted has had little thought to content. Spelling? well it's common knowledge that anybody wanting to be a LD has to do paperwork, which gets seen by loads of people. Spelling is pretty vital stuff. Spell checks fail if the wrong version of a word is used. Their, There, weather, whether - you get the idea - if you can't get these things right while you are at school, would you expect any advice you give to also be considered as good quality, when it's obvious that stringing a few words together is a problem.

 

I wonder if there is a forum for surgeons, where people at school pop up and offer advice on the best way to do haemoroidectomies, using a proctologist's speculum mk3?

 

Lighting isn't life or death, but basic principals are being ignored, just to get hands on experience of things that waggle.

 

If you look at the current BTECs, you'll notice that you can do the Lighting 1 and Lighting 2 units without ever touching a moving head - and that is for a reason - to make sure basic design principles are really stuck in the head before adding clever tools to your arsenal of profiles, pcs and Fresnels.

 

The lighting industry has a limited number of outlets, unless you move into architectural or other non-entertainment strands. Very few of us will ever be in a position to design for the really big, high profile events, so we need to make sure we can do smaller ones effectively, reliably, predictably and within budget - these features seem to be missing from this thread.

 

Sorry fellas - but the thread shows how far away from reality some people are. Please think how your posts will be received by readers with quite a bit more experience - the thought of posting advice that is way off track, to me, means criticism from people on here who I respect. I have done it myself, and it stings a bit. The words we post get read by more people than you think - so think before hitting the final "add reply" - check the spelling, grammar and most importantly - content!

 

It's important that the Blue Room is seen as the place to go for quality advice - and just lately in a number of threads the content is kind of questionable?

[JimWebber]

And as we say in Hampshire "You're right mush!"

 

Paul and Ike have so hit the nail on the proverbial, there seems to be a distinct trend, (And I generalise here) especially amongst the younger generation, to forget that moving lights, and other whizzy, bangy stuff are TOOLS, not TOYS...

 

Jim (Thirty-Three year old F*rt and proud of it!)

[GRisdale]

To add a thought:

 

Fully agree with Paulears on the apparent correlation between youth and a desire to fill a rig with 'twirly-technology', though I would as a young lighting designer myself (recognising that Paulears was not generalising in his post) stick up for my generation by saying that we're not all the same. I've had a good few opportunities to use moving lights and have never yet done so having never felt them necessary to achieve the required - and having learnt enough to know the virtues of simplicity. Wash light? That'll be a P743 then. Gobo wash? Where do you want the S4 25/50? Neither of which sound like a hairdryer...

 

I would also say that Paulears' comment on the 'content of posts' generally in this area sings true with me. Every time someone makes a posts along the lines of "how many Mac700s should I hire for my village hall nativity play?" the same responses of "why movers?" are followed by a good scalding of the OP, which could be seen by a new visitor to the Blue Room to suggest an unfriendly atmosphere towards the inexperienced - which could not be further from the truth of the Blue Room - possibly the most helpful website on the planet.

 

May I suggest therefore that a comprehensive: "Stop! Think! Why or Why Not to Use Movers" type page (possibly a medley of the best posts made on this issue) be put into the wiki and all posts of the sort concerned be told: "Read this, if you still have specific questions come back and ask them. Topic closed."

 

Gareth Risdale.