theatre intel spots

[Ynot]

With the greatest respect Y-not, your wrong.

 

This is actually a topic that doesnt boil down to personal preference. The long and the short is IF you choose the right head for the application and design with movers in mind it can and will produce the same effects.

Nope - sorry.

12 movers can NOT take the place of a shed load of conventional lanterns. they just aren't made to do that!

Movers can do SOME of the tasks of a S4, eg, and can often be used to facilitate an easier job by (for example) replacing several similarly placed gobo projectors IF that's what's needed, but there is still a finite limit.

People really need to get out of this "movers are evil, and should only be used as a pimped version of a disco effect" type mind set.

Hmmmm.... (tm Ynot)

I don't recall anyone actually saying 'Movers are evil'.

I doubt many would.

They have their uses, as just one type of tool in the box.

But it would be a VERY brave LD who spec'd movers and nothing else for any serious theatre show. Even rock gigs have lots of fixed lanterns as WELL AS the moving heads

Yes movers could never replace a show that has run with a generic rig and try to reproduce exactly the same effetcs. It takes a new design, but you can still achieve the same effects if you know what your doing.

Again, nope - sorry. It would, IMHO, be an extremely difficult task to do this PROPERLY , with all proper angles covered for all eventualities. You'd end up having to hang nearly as many movers to do the job, and that's your problem!

Its like sound, a system is only as good as the person(s) riding it.

this I DO agree with - and an LD worth his/her salt would never try to light a theatre show (or many others, tbh) with movers alone UNLESS it was something that specifically called for that sort of design - which 99.9% will not.

[lightjocky]

hi

 

I thought I would just clear up a few things as I have not had time duering the week sorry.

 

I posted this subject by the way so here goes

 

the actual rig for the event of les miserables wich is our school production at the bridgwater hall and is not up for sale at there box office!

 

consists of:

 

26x par64 on truus

28x profiles on 2nd truss

8x mac 550 on 3rd truss

4x mac 600 on floor

56x par 64 open white above stage

 

just to clear up a few things on the movers they are not being used as "disco or moveing lights"

they are simply for specials, colour washes, breakups and gobos.

 

we are useing them for the simple reason that rigging time is very limmited and I am programmeing the events before hand. there is also a large enough budget to cover my needs.

if there are any other queries with this event or this post just im me and I will be happy to inform you of anything.

 

for the record like it or not I am 15!!!!

 

the laws do allow me to design and programme and op the lighting!

I have obvioesly been working very closly with the technical staff at the hall and obvioesly they will be doing the rig.

I understand that some people may not like the fact that a teenager much younger than they are doing this sort of work.

but at the end of the day I love and enjoy what I do. I do so much work in and out of school and I am very lucky to get as many jobs as I have done.

over 200 so far in my life

 

thank you very much

jamie

[David Buffham]

12 movers can NOT take the place of a shed load of conventional lanterns. they just aren't made to do that!

Movers can do SOME of the tasks of a S4, eg

A VL1000TS, say, would provide ALL functions of a standard Source 4. But I agree that you'd need rather more than 12 of them to replace 100-odd Source 4s. And in this case they are heavy and awkward to rig, and still need external dimmers.

 

The biggest challenge with using moving lights is getting from one look to another. Condensing a reasonable size Source 4 rig into a much smaller automated-only rig will seriously restrict transition options; particularly if the production style doesn't allow blackouts between scenes. So although a handful of moving lights can generate multiple looks, the designer has also got to bear in mind how to get from one look to another. Through experience this is much better thought about at the lighting design stage rather than in the early hours of the morning whilst plotting.

 

I personally think that automated lighting has its place in all styles of theatre, as long as the fixtures are selected carefully on a show-by-show basis, and an integrated part of the overall production and lighting design.

[J4mie]

I did op 4 for les Miz a year ago at school, we used 6 macs because they had the production running night about with concerts 4 for sum some strange reason. so we had 2 to accommodate far larger amount of lights on our bars than usual, the mac 2000s were great, took time 2 to program though. no complaints :huh:

 

Moderation: You may have no complaints, but we have :-). Please avoid using txt spk on this forum.

[lightjocky]

ye the 2ks are good

we are useing 8x 550 and 4x 600 wash

programmeing isnt a problem as I do it at home and just bring it in to the theatre

quite handy rearly

 

thanks

jamie

[Ynot]

I did op 4 les Miz a year ago at school, we used 6 macs

The point is that if the venue HAS movers then they're in the tool box. IF they fit the bill, and have been/can be fitted, then great - use them as well as you're able.

 

My point (and that of others) is that you can't replace a good rig of fixed lanterns with a small number of movers.

And even if you could, the hire or purchase cost of the movers would likely well outstrip the cost of conventionals. And in terms of rigging/programming I'd say the conventionals would be quicker & easier overall in mny cases.

[J4mie]

your right, I totaly agree

[lightjocky]

I agree but are rig does consist of about 100 generics par64/profiles

 

the movers are just an added extra we are in no way useing them instead of generics

 

jamie

[Michael James]

I used to love movers (when I was 15). Now I'm 18 and working as an LD for a medium size venue, I never use them. If I get a hire budget, I spend it on everything but movers.

 

They have there place, but I work under time constraints and don't have the time to program them. The times I have used them, I felt like they complicated the plotting process to a degree where I just stopped using them, and focused on the generics.

 

 

Looking back, to when I first started out at work, I did a lighting design for a band. I had provided each member with a special. We focused it all up, but the band moved positions before the show. I thought the show would be better if I used scrollers, so I got them out and got them working just before doors opened. Not having enough time to re-focus the specials. The first half of the gig wasnt great, as only a few of the band members had specials.

 

As soon as a slow song came up, I jump out the box, up a ladder, ran across a gangway into the FOH positions and refocused.

 

What did I learn?

 

Start from the ground up, and as a result of this incident, my boss is always saying "learn your trade"

 

(/end rant)

 

Anyway

 

Im sure lots of BR member will agree, to many young technicians just hire movers because they can.

 

Maybe its a phase people go threw.

 

Mic

[lightjocky]

** laughs out loud ** proberly just a phase then

funny that I know a lot of techys and they all go through product phases the most recent for them and now myself is leds in parcans and blinders!

 

jamie

[frazer]

for the record like it or not I am 15!!!!

 

It really doesnt matter if you are 15 or 115 everyone on the BlueRoom is here to help everyone else, and aslong as you give as much information as you can, then you will be returned with the best possible advice.

 

Good luck with your show and I hope it goes well.

[Adam Brinkworth]

I feel that if I had a rig of 102 conventionals, it would be a bonus to hire in or have permanatly 12 moving heads. They can add some dimension to an already vibrant light show.

 

I can see what many B-R's are saying about angles etc but in my opinon movers can look good combined with the Par64's and profiles that are in the OP's rig.

[mumbles]

I feel that if I had a rig of 102 conventionals, it would be a bonus to hire in or have permanatly 12 moving heads. They can add some dimension to an already vibrant light show.

 

I can see what many B-R's are saying about angles etc but in my opinon movers can look good combined with the Par64's and profiles that are in the OP's rig.

Yes, and...

 

No one has in the slightest said that, if they had the budget and programming time, that they wouldn't want a dozen (decent theatrically biased) movers to add to a rig that has been designed to do the job.

 

But, to say that you could light a show without generics on one of your trusses, and purely movers would be idiotic, unless there was th budget to replace each lantern or group of lanterns with a fixture.

 

To Lightjocky;

Just me being an arse here :huh: , and pleasedon't take it as criticism, more as a discussion point. In the first few posts, you appeared to be saying that the 4 MAC2000s were going on the front FOH truss, as you couldn't put generics there due to restriction on accessing for focus which is fine. Has you decision to use 8 mac 550s on the 3rd truss been due to a decision along the lines of what has been said above (ie the fixtures not being focussed correctly as they aren't positioned correctly) or due to budget, or was there another reason?

[Adam Brinkworth]

Yes, cant agree more mumbles. This is what I was trying to get at.

[Shaggy]

<snip>If I get a hire budget, I spend it on everything but movers.

 

They have there place, but I work under time constraints and don't have the time to program them. The times I have used them, I felt like they complicated the plotting process to a degree where I just stopped using them, and focused on the generics.

 

Looking back, to when I first started out at work, I did a lighting design for a band. I had provided each member with a special. We focused it all up, but the band moved positions before the show.<snip> Not having enough time to re-focus the specials. The first half of the gig wasnt great, as only a few of the band members had specials.

Sorry I really don't get any of what you are saying. "I don't like intels, because once I tried to use scrollers and was left without enough time to refocus". While intels are hard to program on some desks (strands apparently) on rock gigs with the appropriate desk (pearl, hog) they can create great effects, and in fact if you were using intels for those specials then you would have been able to change those specials without leaving your desk. Intels don't have to move, and gigs don't always have to have everyone perfectly lit.