Transport

[gareth]

have you heard about about the two theatre companies who had to swap vans, as the one with the 7.5 tonner had hired young stage management, and the one with the sprinter had stage management of a more venerable vintage. Wonder if they were affected by the GVOL rules?

If they had to swap because of the age of the stage management involved, I'd have thought that it was more likely to be an insurance-based issue - if the SMs were under 25, they probably couldn't get them insured on the 7.5-tonner.

[Tom]

Just to make things clear:

 

GVOL is (as the name suggests) the operators license. By operator in this case though they mean the company controlling use of the vehicle, not the driver. If a company owns or hires a 7.5T truck for commercial prepossess (like transporting set for a tour) they require an operators license for that vehicle. The license is not connected to any particular driver but covers any driver working for the company.

 

In addition, the person driving the truck requires a category C1 entitlement on their driving license. If you took your test in the UK before 1997, you will more than likely have that entitlement automatically. If you took it after then, you have to take a separate test. I do not think there is any additional age restriction on taking that test.

 

In addition, the insurance company may want the driver to be over a certain age - normally 25 but this varies and the same is often true for smaller van hires.

 

I can also spout basic knowledge on drivers hours and tachographs (which are also required) if you want me to.

 

Gareth - you could try talking to some of the small scale theatre companies mentioned as they must have had similar experiences to you. Trestle, Forkbeard Fantasy, Actors Touring Company all have those big Mercs.

[Tom Baldwin]

Does anyone know when the requirement for a GVOL on 7.5t came into force?

[sNIP]

The last time I had a 7.5t from a hire company (for work purposes) was probably Summer 2001.

I don't know, but I think it was some time before 2001; I recall it being an issue when I was last in Edinburgh for the Fringe, which would have been nineteen ninety-something... '97 or '98?

 

Tom

[James C]

I can also spout basic knowledge on drivers hours and tachographs (which are also required) if you want me to.

 

Gareth -  you could try talking to some of the small scale theatre companies mentioned as they must have had similar experiences to you.  Trestle, Forkbeard Fantasy, Actors Touring Company all have those big Mercs.

Depending on what a company's doing, Tachographs aren't necessarily required in a 7.5t. Can't remember what the exceptions were, but it was something along the lines of not travelling more than xxx miles from base, and only carrying goods that would be used at the destination, then brought back to base. I ran a big Merc for 18 months without breaching the conditions that exempted me from using the tachograph. May have changed now, but if you're stuck not being qualified to use one, check out the EU guidelines, in case you're in the clear.

 

Other companies to try for further info would be Oily Cart (one of the loveliest touring companies you could ever have the pleasure of welcoming into your venue) and Quicksilver (Who have a gorgeous Automatic Merc, with very plush interior...drool...). Not sure if Solent Peoples Theatre still have my Bessie or not.

[Tomo]

I've just been reading the Statuatory Instrument about this operators licence, and there's some interetsing stuff there:

 

Exemptions to Section 2 (1), Part 21 appears to indicate that theatres don't need one.

 

I'm not a lawyer though, but Section 2 (1) in the Act reads:

2.—(1) Subject to subsection (2) and section 4, no person shall use a goods vehicle on a road for the carriage of goods—

 

    (a) for hire or reward, or

 

    (b) for or in connection with any trade or business carried on by him,

 

except under a licence issued under this Act; and in this Act such a licence is referred to as an "operator's licence".

 

And it seems that the lawyer handling my car accident hasn't ever heard of this Act or SI, which inspires so much confidence.

[Tom]

That is very interesting. Well done for tracking down the appropriate documents. As I said before, I thought there used to be an exemption but could not find confirmation of it. It would seem (very clearly) that

Properties, equipment or animals being carried to or from theatrical, musical, cinematographic or circus performances or sporting events, exhibitions or fairs, or to or from the making of radio or television broadcasts or films.

are exempted.

 

However, I rang the Traffic Commissioner's office and they were very unsure about this (so don't go staking your license/life's saving is fines on it yet). I shall be writing to the traffic commissioner for clarification and will let you know.

 

In the mean time here are some useful links to do with Goods Vehicle Operators Licensing (GVOL):

Guide to Goods Vehicle Operators Licensing

Goods Vehicle (Licencing of Operators) Act 1995 which includes the following (as quoted above) Obligation to hold operator's licence.

The Statutory Instrument 1996 No. 2186 - The Goods Vehicles (Licensing of Operators) (Temporary Use in Great Britain) Regulations 1996 which includes the following (as quoted above) Exemptions from Obligation to hold a License.

 

There, thats all nice and clear then.

 

Edit: Further reading of the Statutory Instrument shows that the exemption quoted only applies to "certain foreign goods vehicles". So it would appear that theatre use is not exempted after all. Bugger :D

[dominicgross]

On the same wave length, Me and our band are currently planning the summer tour down to the south and then to the Scilly's.

 

We will need to hire a van or minibus, but are having problems as our oldest guy is 20.

 

Is there anyway to get round this, can anyone recomend a firm?

 

The rental will need to be for 10/12 days, with unlimited millage.

[paulears]

new licences don't have the 7.5 tonne on it anymore, as someone said - but I passed my driving test in 1979 and had it until 1997, when I had a fit - quite rightly, my doc told swansea and I lost my licence. the rules say that as 'a single solitary seizure' to give it its correct name is fairly common, after a year of fit free life you can get your licence back. They didn't mention, of course, that you get back a new type licence, with photo etc, and DON'T get the 7.5 tonne category back. My licence now has the same categories as my 18 yr old son - apart from my bike category, which I did get back.

 

Change of tack - I notice my local bike dealer is selling a commercial vehicle - albiet a very small one, that is advertised as being able to be driven on a motor bike licence - even though it has 4 wheels. Anyone know how this works?

paul

[JohnMcConnell]

There is a category on driving licences for (I think) 3/4 ton goods vehicles which everyone gets when they pass their motorbike driving examination.

This means that everyone with a motorbike licence can drive quadbikes. I assume this vehicle will be under 3/4 of a ton and be based on a quadbike chassis.

 

THis is only based on personal experience as I have one of these 3/4 ton good vehicle licences, and I got it when I took my motorbike test..

[themadhippy]

intresting,just checked my bike licence and think id better inform them of my sevral changes of adress,im not even allowed reverse :D

[landy]

Just a note which might be useful to a few people, you can get licences in the name of a company, and providing a licenced person administers it all, and you are on genuine company business you are covered. I will test this theory when I book a truck later.........

[Tom]

I'll say it again, don't get confused between a Drivers License, which is a personal entitlement to drive various categories of vehicle, and an Operators License (GVOP) which is entitles a company to operate (own / hire and control) a goods vehicle.

 

If your driving license does not entitle you to drive a 7.5t truck then you may not legally do so, regardless of any GVOL your company may hold.

[landy]

obviously you need the entitlement on your personal drivers licence. But, you don't necessarily need to go and spend £450 on a personal GOVP for each person who needs to drive 7.5T waggon. It is possible to have one in a company name which full time members of staff can opperate under.

[gareth]

obviously you need the entitlement on your personal drivers licence. But, you don't necessarily  need to go and spend £450 on a personal GOVP for each person who needs to drive 7.5T waggon. It is possible to have one in a company name which full time members of staff can opperate under.

I could be wrong, but I don't think this was ever under question ... was it??

 

The GVOL is held by an organisation, not by an individual driver, and covers the operation of one or more vehicles from an operating centre as defined by the license. These vehicles can be owned or hired. As long as the company in question has a GVOL (if relevant - I'm going to contact my local traffic commisioner next week and quiz them about the exemptions which Tom flagged up), and anyone who's going to drive a 7.5-tonner has C1 entitlement, then life is good.

[gareth]

That is very interesting.  Well done for tracking down the appropriate documents.  As I said before, I thought there used to be an exemption but could not find confirmation of it.  It would seem (very clearly) that

Properties, equipment or animals being carried to or from theatrical, musical, cinematographic or circus performances or sporting events, exhibitions or fairs, or to or from the making of radio or television broadcasts or films.

are exempted.

 

However, I rang the Traffic Commissioner's office and they were very unsure about this (so don't go staking your license/life's saving is fines on it yet). I shall be writing to the traffic commissioner for clarification and will let you know.

 

Well, this whole thing got shoved onto the back burner before I had a chance to follow it up, but it's back in my thoughts again now, so ....

 

Having done a little more research into this, it looks like the exemption that Tom quoted is actually a part of the Goods Vehicles (Licensing of Operators) (Temporary Use in Great Britain) Regulations 1996 (Statutory Instrument 1996 No. 2186), and not the Goods Vehicles (Licensing of Operators) Act 1995 (c. 23).

 

Now, the question is, does the former document apply to all vehicles which are not permanently covered by a GVOL (i.e. vehicles on short-term hire), or does it only apply to foreign vehicles being used temporarily in the UK? The text of the 1995 act and the 1996 statutory instrument aren't especially clear on this front! So I think I'll give my local Traffic Area Office a call some time this week and have them look into it for me. I'll let you know what they come up with ...