Transport

[MikeR]

Having been pulled over in a 7.5 tonner I can testify that the owner or hirer of the vehicle needs to hold an operators license. If they do not, both the owner / hirer and the driver are held to be at fault. Least thats what the friendly PC told us.

[gareth]

The Traffic Area Office in Leeds have never heard of Statutory Instrument no. 2186 - neither are they the remotest bit interested in finding out about it, despite the fact that I offered to give them a URL where they could read it in full. Lazy b*st*rds. :o

 

The Traffic Area Office in Birmingham had never heard of it either. However, I think I managed to speak to one of the few civil servants who's actually interested in doing their job properly and helping people with their queries, because he sounded quite keen to find out the answer to my question! He got as much information as he could out of me and went away to do some ferreting and see what he could find out. He's just called me back, and as far as either of us can work out S.I.2186 applies only to "temporary use" in the sense of foreign vehicles being brought into the UK. It doesn't apply to "temporary use" in the sense of UK-based vehicles on short-term hire to UK-based companies. To be honest, that's pretty much the answer I was expecting, but at least now I've heard it from the horse's mouth, so to speak. The conclusion we arrived at is that the only way out of having to pay for a GVOL is to move the company to the Channel Islands .... if only! :o

[andy_s]

have you heard about about the two theatre companies who had to swap vans, as the one with the 7.5 tonner had hired young stage management, and the one with the sprinter had stage management of a more venerable vintage. Wonder if they were affected by the GVOL rules?

If they had to swap because of the age of the stage management involved, I'd have thought that it was more likely to be an insurance-based issue - if the SMs were under 25, they probably couldn't get them insured on the 7.5-tonner.

just to clarify - insurance is no doubt an issue, but on this occasion, the problem was that the older stage management team had passed their driving tests at a time when driving anything up to 7.5 tonnes was permitted on a standard licence, and the younger ones had obtained their licences after the standard entitlement had changed. As I had the story second hand, I don't know whether either of the two companies held the GVOL, but from reading the other posts here, it would seem that the company with the big van certainly should have one.

 

Also - I had a conversation as recently as last week with a freelance technician who said he regularly hired 7.5 tonners with no problems (and no GVOL). It seems there is a lot of inconsistency and innaccuracy around.....

[gareth]

I had a conversation as recently as last week with a freelance technician who said he regularly hired 7.5 tonners with no problems (and no GVOL). It seems there is a lot of inconsistency and innaccuracy around.....

You could probably get a hire company to let you have one on the basis that it was for personal use only. (Some of the less reputable hire companies probably wouldn't even check that it was.) But I reckon that if you then got pulled over with a wagon full of PA or lighting on your way back from a gig, and didn't have the necessary paperwork, you'd end up in hot water.

[paulears]

I didn't think this problem would bother me, but at work we've just found out that the D1 category is also being removed as licences get renewed - D1 is the mini bus category. there is exemption for people who drive min-buses on a voluntary basis, however my college have contacted our insurance company and they won't have any of it! Only D1 holders can drive our mini-buses and we're disapearing fast. Anyone with a newish licence should check to see if they've still got D1.

[Wilf dLampy]

You should be OK to do that with the small bus community permits (more info at the DVLA website here) or alternatively unpaid. You need to be over 21 and held a driving license for two years either way, but you don't need the D1 category.

 

Our insurers are OK with it.

[Suzette]

Going back to the GVOL and C1 questions - andy s says that a freelance technician he spoke to regularly hires 7.5 tonners without problem and without a GVOL.....

 

If I've read all the postings correctly then the technician doesn't need a GVOL but the hire company s/he hires from does.

 

I have a C1 category on my personal licence (and I'm over 25!) so therefore I can go to a hire company and hire a 7.5 ton van as the company should have the GVOL licence and I have the correct driving licence. Insurance is covered by hire company.

 

Have I understood this correctly?

[Pete McCrea]

As far as I know:

To hire a 7.5T truck for "Hire or Reward" requires an 'O' Licence (Operators licence).

 

That means that me as a freelancer doing a gig were I hire a 7.5t truck to shift hired equipment, I need a licence. Unless I lie and obtain the truck under false pretense, where the brown hits the fan if Mr Plod pulls me over.

 

To move house I don't, as I'm not getting paid (Hire or Reward).

[Tom]

No Suzete, I'm afraid that is not correct.

 

The company hiring (and therefore operating on that day) the vehicle must have a GVOL.

It has nothing (directly) to do with insurance or which category drivers license you hold.

 

Whether or not the hire company is obliged to check if you (or your company) has a GVOL I'm not sure.

[andy_s]

If I've read all the postings correctly then the technician doesn't need a GVOL but the hire company s/he hires from does.

As far as I understand it, it is the organisation operating the vehicle, not the hire company that needs the operating licence - I.e the person / organisation using the vehicle, not the rental company. (or so I was told by a hire company). I will confess to being still much confused, however.....

[Tom]

As far as I understand it, it is the organisation operating the vehicle, not the hire company that needs the operating licence - I.e the person / organisation using the vehicle, not the rental company.

 

This is correct.

 

The hire company may also have an operating license, but this would not cover you as it only covers people employed by the company.

Strictly speaking, as a freelancer you are probably not covered by the GVOL of the company that is contracting you, as you are not technically employed. But that's a whole other can of worms and I wish I hadn't mentioned it - and I may be wrong.

[andy_s]

No Suzete, I'm afraid that is not correct.

 

The company hiring (and therefore operating on that day) the vehicle must have a GVOL.

It has nothing (directly) to do with insurance or which category drivers license you hold.

 

Whether or not the hire company is obliged to check if you (or your company) has a GVOL I'm not sure.

On the bottom of most hire agreement forms there is a clause requiring the hirer to have any necessary permits, licences etc or words to that effect. I guess that is the hire companies "checking".

[gareth]

As far as I understand it, it is the organisation operating the vehicle, not the hire company that needs the operating licence - I.e the person / organisation using the vehicle, not the rental company. (or so I was told by a hire company). I will confess to being still much confused, however.....

You're quite correct. If you want to hire a vehicle that's over 3.5 tons gross plated weight, and it's for anything other than personal, non-business use, you need a GVOL - whether you're a company or individual.

 

If you're carrying goods "for hire or reward" then you need a 'standard' GVOL. However, if you're simply carrying your own (or, presumably, hired) equipment from one place to another in connection with another business, then you can apply for a 'restricted' GVOL - this will allow you to use a vehicle over 7.5t GVW to move your equipment around, but you aren't allowed to make a specific charge for doing so (i.e. not for 'hire or reward').

[ianl]

the D1 category is also being removed as licences get renewed

my understanding of a licence being renewed is when you reach the end date on the licence and apply for a new one ( ie over 70 years old or only had a 3 year licence for medical reasons)

 

changing from a old licence to a photo licence, geting a replacement licence because you lost the old one, moved house, changed your name etc do not count as renewing your licence and you should keep all existing categories

 

if you do need to renew your licence and want to keep D1 then you can request this but will have to undergo a stricter medical and may still be refused

[James C]

Sorry to raise this old chestnut again...Just been told by a Major national rental company that they can't hire me anything over 3.5t, even for personal use unless I had a GVOL. Having just re-read this entire thread, my understanding is that I don't need a GVOL to hire for personal use. Anyone able to shed any more light on this? London to Carlisle is enough of a trek to do once, so I'm not desperate to do 2 runs in a Luton...