Russ247 Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 My understanding is that you can drive a 7.5T truck, if your licence allows, for personal reasons (moving house etc) without an operators licence. It must be hired personally though NOT through a company account and must be not for profit. I have been told by a hire company you do not have to use the tacho either when driving privately as it is not for business though we deemed it prudent to do so, just in case! Again that is just opinion, though the hire company did have some proof & reasoning behind it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 My understanding is that you can drive a 7.5T truck, if your licence allows, for personal reasons (moving house etc) without an operators licence. It must be hired personally though NOT through a company account and must be not for profit. I have been told by a hire company you do not have to use the tacho either when driving privately as it is not for business though we deemed it prudent to do so, just in case! Again that is just opinion, though the hire company did have some proof & reasoning behind it<{POST_SNAPBACK}>That's also my understanding of the rules and regs - I believe most hire companies will make you sign a disclaimer to state that you'll be using the vehicle solely for private, noon-business-related purposes, just to cover themselves if you're pulled over and checked out by VOSA or PC Plod. However, I guess a hire company is perfectly within their rights to refuse to rent you a particular type of vehicle unless their terms and conditions are met, and that they're also entitled to impose whatever T&Cs (including the possesion of a GVOL) that they see fit. :( Out of curiosity, James, was this a large national rental company, or a small local one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slim_mcslim Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 well I have just read all of this thread, and it started before I joined BR but I think I would like to make a few points from my experience... we purchased a new van a couple of months ago, a shiny new 4.5t sprinter which requires an operators licence, in order to get an operators licence you have to apply for about £170 plus a £75 fee per vehicle plus you have to put an advert in the local paper which my local paper want £225 for (cause they know they can charge a premium and get away with it) and once you have sent all the info off to vosa it then takes 9 to 13 weeks to get a licence!!! so hence yet we don't have one, to be fair we haven't even applied for one cause we have so much on at the moment to even think about it... I talked to the traffic commissioner the other day about my current situation and he told me that "not having an operators licence is naughty" but "if you get caught probably nothing would happen!!! if you get caught frequently then you (the operating company) would get fined and ultimately banned from holding an o-licence" my colleague got pulled by the police the other week in the "unlicensed" sprinter and the police decided that it was just a van not a hgv and as such there was no problem. the main reason for us buying a 4.5t sprinter over a standard one was we weighed a large amount of our cases and scenery, and that plus 300kg of crew and personal bags in the front and it is easy to get to the 1.5t weight limit of a standard sprinter. however moving onto trucks - our local hire company (have 4 branches across east mids) will hire out 7.5t trucks for personal use, or if they know you they will hire you one for business on the premise that if you get pulled by the police you just tell them that you hired a luton, the hire company where out of lutons and gave you that instead!!! but as far as I am aware, you need an o-licence to hire or own a truck for business purposes, if you are driving someone elses truck without an appropriate o-licence then the driver is not at fault and is not penalised, the hirer will be the one to be penalised if anyone decides to take it further. but this is all complete rubbish really, especially for people who need to hire trucks to avoid overloading 3.5t vans. seeing as the hire companies have to have operators licences to cover their vehicles and are responsible for maintaining them and having adequate funds in the bank to pay for the vehicles recovery, all I can say is that the traffic commission are running a consultation exercise next year with a view to reform the current situation, but I doubt it will change.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 I thought the biiiiig Srpinters were still within the magical 3.5t GVW ???? The extra-long wheelbase ones that my local hire company rent out are certainly rated as such, anyway .... Consultation exercise, huh? Think I'd like to find out a little more about this - got a URL for any www-based info about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slim_mcslim Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 you can get - big 3.5t sprinters all the way up to 4.1m in load length, but they are so easy to overload, so you then move up to the next weight catagory of 4.5t the 4.5t ones have twin wheels at the back. Merc do them as 4xx(model no.s) VW do them as LT45's ford do them as a very custom option on the jumbo transit (or well they did at least) in a long wheelbase (4m) 3.5t sprinter you can put 1.4t in the 4.5t version you can put 2.3t, if you load the van up with 3 people in the front plus their luggage and tools that can be 300kgs leaving you 1.1t of payload left, its amazing how quickly weight adds up - for a small conference you might have 8 stage weights at 12.5kg each - 8 set panels at 30kgs each, screen kit at 25kgs and screen suround panels another 50kg and a lectern at 15kg - so just for the scenery you have 430kgs leaving you loads of room in the van but only 670kgs to put projection/lighting and sound plus anything else you feel like... now soundwise I know it varies but our martin audios, flightcased weigh 68kg per pair - 4 of those an amp and a desk and theres another 200kg gone and I havent even thought about putting in all that cable that I need - this is why we went for the 4.5t version I saw the consultation thingy on the vosa website http://www.vosa.gov.uk it was on the main page - but doesn't seem to be there now... paul... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 you can get - big 3.5t sprinters all the way up to 4.1m in load length, but they are so easy to overload, so you then move up to the next weight catagory of 4.5t the 4.5t ones have twin wheels at the back. Merc do them as 4xx(model no.s) VW do them as LT45's ford do them as a very custom option on the jumbo transit (or well they did at least)Ah, right, didn't realise that - I guess my local hire co. only has the 3xx variants because of the whole GVOL thing, and don't feel the need to carry any 4xx ones. Never really known what those numbers on the Sprinters meant until now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James C Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 However, I guess a hire company is perfectly within their rights to refuse to rent you a particular type of vehicle unless their terms and conditions are met, and that they're also entitled to impose whatever T&Cs (including the possesion of a GVOL) that they see fit. Out of curiosity, James, was this a large national rental company, or a small local one?<{POST_SNAPBACK}> National - I think they're a subdivision of enterprise car hire. I've asked my sister (a police civvy) to ask her traffic buddies about this - I'll report back when she does... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 I've asked my sister (a police civvy) to ask her traffic buddies about this - I'll report back when she does...Excellent, that would be interesting. It would be good to get some views on this from the people actually 'on the ground' who have to enforce it - with one or two exceptions (like the really helpful chap in Birmingham!), the people in the various Traffic Offices don't really seem to have a clue - or they seem to have one, but subsequent information from one of their colleagues then totally contradicts everything that they said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James C Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 I've asked my sister (a police civvy) to ask her traffic buddies about this - I'll report back when she does...Excellent, that would be interesting. It would be good to get some views on this from the people actually 'on the ground' who have to enforce it - with one or two exceptions (like the really helpful chap in Birmingham!), the people in the various Traffic Offices don't really seem to have a clue - or they seem to have one, but subsequent information from one of their colleagues then totally contradicts everything that they said! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually, whatever she finds out will be particularly pertinent to you, Gareth - she works for Cheshire Constabulary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ247 Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 I saw the consultation thingy on the vosa website http://www.vosa.gov.uk it was on the main page - but doesn't seem to be there now... paul...<{POST_SNAPBACK}> It has moved & is now part of their magazine -http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/publications/m...mber%202004.pdf Some interesting bits relevent to quite a few bits in various threads ... R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James C Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Well, the latest from my sister's colleagues in traffic police is that indeed, hiring a 7.5t for personal use doesn't require a GVOL, provided that the hire company have one. When hiring for business use, however, the hire company and the business using the van need GVOLs - though there was some doubt over this (as usual), and further clarification should be forthcoming. For the record, I found a large SE England-based company that will do me a 7.5t on a credit card rather than an account, and they specifically stated that I don't need an operators' licence. So...in answer to my own question, it appears to be legal and possible...I think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Just found this thread having been redirected from this one.I've been around enough to have the old licence and so can drive 7.5T vans. I have hired them from Ryders a few times since the GVOL thing came into force, and didn't have to get a GVOL because the theatre companies I was hiring them for were registered charities. These are apparently exempt from the GVOL requirement. So there is a way around it, as long as you do the booking in the company name (and quote their charity number) of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonythetechie Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 I've been around enough to have the old licence and so can drive 7.5T vans. I have hired them from Ryders a few times since the GVOL thing came into force, and didn't have to get a GVOL because the theatre companies I was hiring them for were registered charities. These are apparently exempt from the GVOL requirement. So there is a way around it, as long as you do the booking in the company name (and quote their charity number) of course.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Grahame Do you have any idea of the legislation to back this up. I work for a Theatre Company that is a registered charity, and have just gone through the full process of applying for the GVOL after ours expired because we mistakenly thought that as we didn't own a truck anymore we didn't need one. After consultation with the Traffic Office in Leeds nothing of charity's are exempt was ever suggested to us. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 After consultation with the Traffic Office in Leeds nothing of charity's are exempt was ever suggested to us.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>The GVOL legislation is very misunderstood, especially be people who are supposed to know.Gareth has said that he's asked several different people at the same traffic office and got differing replies. I've been in the unfortunate situation of being involved in an accident with a 7.5tonner, and my first lawyer had NOT HEARD of the Goods Vehicle (Licensing of Operators) Act 1995, despite supposedly being an expert on traffic law.(Needless to say, he's not my lawyer for the case anymore and I may be reporting him to the Law Society for this and other reasons which I shouldn't go into...) Having read the Act myself and some of the later additions, I can see why the problem exists.There *are* many exemptions, but the paper trail of corrections is fairly long and convoluted. One reason I dislike lawyers and politicians. I'd suggest that you go as far up the chain in your traffic office as you possibly can and ask them (and get the answer in writing) - it may be the case that charities don't need one, which would make sense as charities are exempt from requiring minibus licences for their *unpaid* minibus drivers. (Insurers are another matter!) This is one reason that I welcome the review!If the requirements can be cleared up, then at least we will know where we stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Do you have any idea of the legislation to back this up. <snip>After consultation with the Traffic Office in Leeds nothing of charity's are exempt was ever suggested to us.Tony, that information was what I was told by Ryders and I was happy to believe them; I haven't a clue where it is in the legislation. It's also possible that this is peculiar to Scottish law and may not apply in England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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