Low Fog Effects

[gareth]

So you do have spare power to run dimmers, then?

 

Anyway, skill in lighting design lies in using your available resources wisely in order to achieve the effect you want. Not using moving lights in response to every single problem as a means of overcoming a shortage of dimmers!

 

 

Looking at the tech spec on the college website, it appears that you have 84 dimmers in a smallish college theatre space. That's not a 'shortage' by any stretch of the imagination.

[Sam_Lowers]

we do have a lot of dimmer channels available but only 24 channels on our truss

 

although we do cross phases we are not supposed to due to it being an educational establishment

 

it was just an idea in my original post though what would you prefer to do:

1) use a lot of your generic lanterns for one specific effect (i.e. a uv wash when you may have a small supply anyway)

2) use some of your budget and get some cmy movers with wide beams so as you can wash the stage in many different colours/ shades all the way through the show - saving channels that may be needed else where and saving on gel etc

 

I'm not saying my way is right but the original post (I take it you have read it) ask's for ideas and I have NEVER said movers is the only way of doing it but off the top of my head with out seeing the set design, knowing what kind of smoke was used etc I think this could work

 

also I think you will find that most students do like to be able to get the opportunity to use moving units in their shows because:

1) not all of them work professionally in any way

2) it is a learning environment so they may as well "learn" how to use them!

[Ynot]

And yet it only took ELEVEN MINUTES after the OP's post for the first respondent to mention bloody movers!!!!! :D

 

Gareth

 

the only reason I asked gherriott about using mover is because the way I was thinking is about him using some nice wash's with a good cmy system inthem to help his effect. I suggested this because I know the feeling of trying to do a really good lighting rig in a college theatre and not having the dimmable channels - hence why I mentioned movers because for my college we have plenty of 13amp sockets to use as hot power and no spare mains power to run dimmers!!

Sam.

Have to say I'm TOTALLY with Gareth on this one.

The OP says he has available ccts and lanterns as well as the desire to do what's needed.

He does NOT need to even contemplate moving lights to achieve the effect he's after!!!!

What's the point of having a CMY mix when he's after a specific 'look' that can be achieved by choosing the right gel in the right lantern to start with......???!!

[Sam_Lowers]

I can see where you are both coming from but like I said it was just an idea

 

he did ask for a range of ideas which is why I put on my ideas for both generic and intelligent

 

I am not trying to start arguments with either of you but just trying to help

 

I do agree that yes movers aren't necessary for he wants to achieve but the way I looked at it was if he is using dark colours to illuminate the smoke then how many generics would you suggest using? I can see you having to use a lot to get a nice coverage

[Ynot]

although we do cross phases we are not supposed to due to it being an educational establishment

This is (these days) an urban myth. There is NO legislation that says you cannoy cross phases

it was just an idea in my original post though what would you prefer to do:

1) use a lot of your generic lanterns for one specific effect

2) use some of your budget and get some cmy movers with wide beams so as you can wash the stage in many different colours/ shades all the way through the show

"Some of the budget" tends to get spent on small numbers of movers as opposed to using existing kit (which the OP says he has reasonable amounts of) and hiring in cheaper generics to do the job properly.

I'm not saying my way is right but the original post (I take it you have read it) ask's for ideas and I have NEVER said movers is the only way of doing it but off the top of my head with out seeing the set design, knowing what kind of smoke was used etc I think this could work

To be honest, I have a fair idea in my mind of how the OP is trying to set this piece, and can offer reasonable options within the existing kit the OP has listed. So I believe can others like Gareth. This is without going to the expense and trouble of hiring, rigging and programming moving lights.

also I think you will find that most students do like to be able to get the opportunity to use moving units in their shows because:

1) not all of them work professionally in any way

Sorry, but so what....?

2) it is a learning environment so they may as well "learn" how to use them!

But WHY, if there's not a specific need for the expensive equipment? If the show specifically calls for the effects achievable by ML's, or the space or channels available was so limited that they then came into their own, then fair enough.

But not as a first call!!

 

 

I am not trying to start arguments with either of you

Neither are we, but it just seems to be the 'easy' way out for too many shows discussed here these days, instead of exploring all the generic possibilities.

I do agree that yes movers aren't necessary for he wants to achieve but the way I looked at it was if he is using dark colours to illuminate the smoke then how many generics would you suggest using? I can see you having to use a lot to get a nice coverage

Actually, no - I'd say for a general stage wash, even of a dark colour from overhead, you'd probably manage that with 4 fresnels. remember you're 'painting' a white medium with colour that's gonna bounce right back!

[Sam_Lowers]

Actually, no - I'd say for a general stage wash, even of a dark colour from overhead, you'd probably manage that with 4 fresnels. remember you're 'painting' a white medium with colour that's gonna bounce right back!

 

would the colour not be hard to see as the smoke moves and thins out or can this just be compensated by using a constant heavy fog?

 

I do see what you mean about the fresnels but like I said what would be the best way of keeping the colour visible?

[Ynot]

Actually, no - I'd say for a general stage wash, even of a dark colour from overhead, you'd probably manage that with 4 fresnels. remember you're 'painting' a white medium with colour that's gonna bounce right back!

would the colour not be hard to see as the smoke moves and thins out or can this just be compensated by using a constant heavy fog?

 

I do see what you mean about the fresnels but like I said what would be the best way of keeping the colour visible?

The way I see it is that the OP needs to keep a constant low-fog level on the stage, hence presenting a clean white 'canvas' for the reflected light (if done that way). Similarly if lit from below the fog as also suggested, the same applies, or the effect dies the proverbial.

[johnhuson]

Greg, I can understand why you want to use low fog for this effect. However if you want to truely only light this person on stage have you considered not using the smoke as this is going to cause you reflection issues. The only way I can see to avoid reflection is to use some low side light as Gareth suggested, but for me wanting to introduce Jesus on stage I would want to use some strong back/top light which is going to bounce.

[gherriott]

Thank you again guys for your ideas...I didn't mean to start an argument! With it being a college show, our budget is limited, having spent some of it on the low fogger already! I will be using it with constant output during this scene, so I won't need to worry about it being thinner in certain places, once volume of fog has been set. I understand what you are saying about the problems I will have with the bounce from Jesus' spot, that's something I might have to compromise with. I liked the idea of using profiles, shuttered off to produce a narrow vertical, but wide horizontal beam.

 

The way the stage is set out, I have a piece of scaffolding with walking bridges across, taking up the upstage area, with a big rear projection screen in the middle of it. (This is for visualisations and onstage camera work, to try and recreate a rock concert effect). From this rear walkway, I then have to ramps coming down to the extremities of the prosarch. in sort of this shape: \_/

 

the fogger will be situated up centre stage, so the area of highest density would I presume be the narrowest part of the 'funnel' essentially. I was originally thinking of lighting it from floor lamps situated down each ramp and underneath the upstage walkway. I also have two movers situated on either side of the walkway on the floor, just to use with the haze for some effects. As mentioned on previous posts of mine, these are only cheap non-dimmable ones, but do have 12 gobos, similar to that of the default mac gobo wheel, and has a rotating gobo feature. So I will play around with these, but due to them not being dimmable, it makes things slightly more complex when coming to programming the state.

 

I do have plenty of 1kw starlits available, so I am hoping that that should be enough power to throw the darker colours, and with the fog being white, I am presuming that it will reflect that colour a lot better than the stage floor would normally!

 

Thanks again for these ideas, I don't really have anymore budget to play with at the moment, so I have to do with the list of generics I gave earlier. Just a thought, what would par 36's be like? Still too much heat output?

 

Cheers,

 

Greg

[Neil Hampson]

Greg, knowing the size of postage stamp, sorry stage that you are working on, I would put 4 Par64s as low sidelight, about as high as a 'mid' would be on a side boom, two on each side with Congo blue (or Tokyo/Zenith Blue for a less Purple look) , the lanterns would be high enough to be out of the way of the cold fog, but the shallow angle would allow the light to 'skim' across the surface of the fog, without needing to penatrate it. using the beam spread horizontally, and possibly using brushed silk you should cover most of the stage.

[gherriott]

Cheers for that Neil...I won't mention Padgate! Anyway, I am going to experiment with using fleuoresant UV lights at floor level tomorrow, and see how that works, hopefully it won't affect the fog level as they run almost cold. Will let you guys know how I get on. Thanks again for all the ideas.

 

Greg

[gherriott]

Tried using the UV today, and found that fog is 100% not UV reflective!! I tried looking in a catalogue for some sort of UV fog dye, but to no avail. I know you can get scents and all that, but is there such a thing as UV fog dye?

[Ynot]

Tried using the UV today, and found that fog is 100% not UV reflective!! I tried looking in a catalogue for some sort of UV fog dye, but to no avail. I know you can get scents and all that, but is there such a thing as UV fog dye?

Doesn't surprise me at all!

The reason for this is that UV will only reflect back off suitable surfaces, and there are many so-called whites that won't.

As far as I know there's NO dyes that can be added to smoke fluid, because that upsets the balance of the chemicals and can (likely will) lead to damage to the machine. Scented fluid is easier, I believe, but not sure tif that could be an additive or has to be bespoke fluid from the mfr. But as it's not smelly fog you're after that's academic anyway!!