Sam_Lowers Posted February 3, 2007 Author Share Posted February 3, 2007 the year 2005/2006 there were 212 people killed at work. I wonder how many of those were doing what was 'necessary to get the job done'? wow thats a big shock! I had no idea that it was anything like this! I knew that accidents happened in the industry and some of these could be fatalities! thanks for that brian - it has made me suddenly realise and think twice that some of the stuff that I used to feel happy doing could be a bit more risky that I originally thought! I can understand that working at height, with electricity, power tools, heavy weights etc were dangerous and should be respected. it may be where I am young but every time I am out on site I am always aware of the risks and that I could, (if dangerous) put my self at risk but it never crossed my mind that this could turn into a fatality, I's just one of those things that I never thought about. Brian, out of those numbers do you have any idea of how many were accidents and how many were at the fault of the person - strange question I know but I was just interested. I will always realise that there is a risk and now because of what has been said understand a bit more of why colleges and other educational establishments are so strict! I do still stand on my original post that I don't like the way it was run but because of this I feel that proper equipment should be supplied and all students, and staff, should be provided with full training. in my college we pay large material fee's only half of which go to our course, the other half goes to the department so I feel that this half is what should be spent on training! sam sorry I just read the posts that were placed after brian's. I didnt mean to cause any kind of worry with the more experienced members. I can see exactly what you mean. I would just like to clarify though, when I say lean a bit far I do not mean hang over the tower. I have always been taught that you shouldn't ever even reach over the side and that what ever you are working on needs to be within the area of the platform itself.because of this when I say lean I mean reaching over the side to your next lantern (a few inches) so as your torso is still within the boundary but shoulders and arms are not.would this be allowed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben... Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 When I am out on jobs, its easy to jump on a flightcase and swivel yourself around to focus, and I assume we all do it. (right?)Uh... no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattwright15 Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Well actually I have stood on a flight case just as a quick step up to reach something, and I was fine.Until I went to get down!I would have been OK getting down if the case was full like I thought, but the two macs from that case had just been rigged but a rather to efficient local crew.I crouched down to climb off, and the case decided to lift 2 wheels up and through me to my back and slammed me into the case. With my neck stretched over 1 end my legs off the other and my arms out to the side I looked a right prat.I wish I was only looking bad in front of locals and my guys but the pain was rather horrible too, it actually winded me and both my arms and legs were black, blue, purple,red and yellow? for a week.I instantly knew it was a stupid thing to do and defiantly will not do it like that again. If I ever need to climb up just a few feel and there is a flight case to hand and no ladder I will tip the case to its side so the wheels wont cause me a problem again.Some people may now say "You should never use a flight case as a access platform!" to that I say thats rubbish! A tipped sturdy flight case is a far wider platform then any step ladder which could go a couple of feet. But its simple, if you know its dangerous Don't Do It.If you think its dangerous ask someone else if they think its genuinely safe or if its just you being a little to over worried.And if you know its safe because you have done it a 1000 times just remember to check everything is the same as thous previous times. There's always that 1st time after 1000 that it all goes horribly wrong because someone else has changed something.... (Cut a rung off the ladder?) Sorry if this has gone a little off topic, but I wanted to share a painful and embarrassing experience. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam_Lowers Posted February 3, 2007 Author Share Posted February 3, 2007 thanks for that matt any lasting damage or are you ok now? I do agree that flight cases can be used but like you said would probably tip them - if I needed to move again I would flip it onto it's wheels and move on like pointed out if they have kit in then they are a lot heavier but 2 macs still aren't as heavy as having a trunk full of scaff legs or something along these lines, I suppose it is what is out on the job with you sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattwright15 Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 No im ok now, but honestly all week it hurt to move in some directions. Wasnt the best thing todo at the start of a fit up.Could of been much worse. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimWebber Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 When I am out on jobs, its easy to jump on a flightcase and swivel yourself around to focus, and I assume we all do it. (right?), but if a student was caught doing this, they would be banned from the theatre and not allowed to use the theatre for the next few weeks. Yes, most, (If not all) of us have jumped onto a flightcase/chair/table/plantstand/etc. for that "5 minute job." Nine times out of ten, we get away with it... It's that one time, when it all goes pear shaped. I'm fully in favour of Bo****ing anybody who does it - Okay it happens, but there is no way we should condone it! When the Inevitable accident happens, the person concerned should face up to the fact that they were in the wrong, and not look for too much sympathy. I will admit, I've climbed on things I shouldn't have, (Less now, now that I'm a bit older, and my sense of self preservation has kicked in a little more...) And was fully aware that I was gambling with my health (and life). When it did go wrong, (I fell off an un-footed ladder) I only had myself to blame - In fact I'm also ready to admit that incidences like that went a little way towards the "Wrap them in cotton wool" attitude... the year 2005/2006 there were 212 people killed at work. I wonder how many of those were doing what was 'necessary to get the job done'? (Snip)Brian, out of those numbers do you have any idea of how many were accidents and how many were at the fault of the person - strange question I know but I was just interested.(Snip) If you think hard enough, how many "Incidents", can be traced back to the actions (Albeit unwittingly) of an individual or group? In other words how many genuine "Accidents" are there??? Except for acts of God, not many I expect... Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roderick Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 When I am out on jobs, its easy to jump on a flightcase and swivel yourself around to focus, and I assume we all do it. (right?), but if a student was caught doing this, they would be banned from the theatre and not allowed to use the theatre for the next few weeks. Its something I dont understand, and whenever I have taught at the college (I am currently a part time lecturer as well) I have taught the students how to rig etc using the 'correct methods' but also explained to them how the industry does it so that they can understand that its not quite the same. Unfortunately nobody in management seems to think the same.These are two statements I do not like to see from the same person, let alone in the same post.How on earth can someone who claims to be a lecturer teach people incorrect techniques? That is downright irresponsible. If you allow students to 'get away' with the wrong thing, how can you ever expect them to do the right thing? A roadcase is not designed to be climbed on, it is not its purpose! If you need to get to something that is beyond your reach, you get a ladder. Full stop, end of argument.The old argument "the show must go on, whatever it takes" is thankfully on it's way out (Exit Stage Left) and replaced by "No job is so important or urgent that it can't be done safe". Don't get me wrong, I am not a pen-pusher trying to make everyone's life difficult and I will go to any length to get the show on, but if there is a safe way to do it, why not? Time? BS, do you know how much time it takes to go through all the stuff if someone hurts themselves on a job? Much quicker to get a ladder, honestly.And yes, we 'old 'uns' have all done stupid things in our days, mea culpa, but isn't the whole purpose that we learn from our mistakes and show the 'young 'uns' how to do it right?The one thing that seems to be missed by many eager kids is 'gaining experience' which is something that can't be taught, can't be found on Google and can't be bought at eBay, it only comes with years on the job and until then, do it correctly.If I go back to the roadcase sample, very simplisticly speaking, if you are unexperienced you probably look at it as a quick way to get to up a little higher, if you are experienced then you probably work out how to get down again in one piece before you get on top of it. Nothing more embarrasing then jumping of a case and straining your ankle. All students, I beg you, listen to the rules and use them and have a great career in this great industry, don't be fooled by muppets who want you to believe that stupidity is a prerequiste for a great career Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1nuzz Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I think you missed the point of what I was saying. I teach the students how to rig properly. I dont teach them to jump on a flightcase. most of the students I teach, go on work placements and theatres and with hire companies, and return to college afterwards saying how difficult it is sticking to the H&S policy of the college now that they have worked in the industry (albeit for only a week or so). I wouldnt dream of teaching any student to break H&S rules, because as soon as they do, they become complaciant. We have had students caught balancing on the balcony handrail to just get to that 30 second tweak. Obvioulsy they were enlightened to thier ways. Its quite simple within the college. There are no exceptions to the H&S rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herb Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Apologies for going back a bit here but just to point out that aside from insurance issues a number of regulations do require that young people do not work on such things as live electrical systems (not that you should anyway without special training etc) some plant and machinery and so on. This is part of the problem in providing decent apprenticship schemes for young people and getting them into the industry as a career choice early on. Of course, insurance issues play a big part in this but health and safety plays a big part in any job these days and tends to focus the minds of chief executives and the like when it comes to prosecutions, fines and personal liberty.Talking of insurance I would be interested to know how many young people carrying out freelance work have got decent public liability insurance. Make a mistake and you could end up paying for it for the rest of your life. Maybe I misread the posts that intimated this but a question none the less.I believe the figure of 212 deaths covers all work areas...not entertainment in particular but the number of serious and long term injuries may be more indicative of where people slip up.Working at height is a serious issue for the industry even when it comes to using ladders and is not helped by the flightcase scooting situations. The injuries described earlier (by matt?)are all too common. The WAH regs give a heirachy of measures that should be considered before using a ladder so where does that put a flightcase.Like many others I have committed such 'sins' and I did learn to flip the case off its wheels. And inspect ladders before use. Sorry to sit here and pontificate but just to expand the thread a bit.cheersherb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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