Behringer Feedback destroyers- do they work...?

[colebrooke]

I've used a Behringer feedback destroyer in the past and found it added a fair amount of noise in the monitors (perhaps it was just the one I was using?). It did give a few more dB gain before feedback, however. Has anyone used the Sabine models?

[*bigrod*]

they work brilliantly as a replacement for a 1u blanking plate.....

 

:(

 

tip: use your ears and get a graphic....

 

r.

[T-Boy]

tip: use your ears and get a graphic....

I have to agree. Having been on monitor systems ranging from tiny to enormous, from crummy little desks you have to tease into working with the odd kick, to really big toys and line array side fills, I've found there simply isn't a substitute for a graphic and the knowledge of how to use it. :(

 

T-B

[dravenzouk]

Let's put this question into a slightly different (or more narrow) context. It seems that most everyone agrees that the proper solution to feedback is a good graphic EQ and a bit of experience. The problem is, this assumes two things: 1) that you are in a situation with a dedicated soundperson and that, 2) that soundperson is reasonably proficient at his/her job. But what about the situation that a LOT of us are in - being a band that runs the sound from the stage while playing?

 

Seems to me that having a decent FBQ box on the monitor chain, spending the proper amount of time setting it up during soundcheck (using the manual parametric approach), and then leaving a few "live/automatic" filters active during the performance is not a bad way to go. Once the gig starts, it's very difficult for a player/soundperson to give the proper amount of attention to the feedback situation and ride the EQ faders on the fly - and having a robot to assist you here would be nice.

 

Question still remains: are the evil Behringer units up to the task in this situation?

[MarkPAman]

I was with you until

and then leaving a few "live/automatic" filters active

Thing is, these units (any of them) are not able to tell the difference between feedback, and music. So any note that goes on for a relatively long time gets treated as feedback, and the unit attempts to filter it out.

So get one by all means and set it up with no music, but don't let it work on automatic.

[dbuckley]

I would suggest that in unskilled hands a FBD is a dangerous tool. Same as compressors. These tools are not fit and forget, and they are not without problems. And a FBD on full auto mode during the show is surely the path to destruction.

 

I'm beginning to suspect that as there are so few people who know what they are talking about who are willing to use any sort of FBD, perhaps they are a much harder tool to use successfully than a graphic and a good pair of ears. This is despite my conviction based on experience that FBD type tools do have a role to play when GBF is high on the priority list.

 

I have an automixer too, for conferency type work, as it too gives me more GBF compared to manual mixing.

[Hambone]

I would suggest that in unskilled hands a FBD is a dangerous tool. Same as compressors. These tools are not fit and forget, and they are not without problems. And a FBD on full auto mode during the show is surely the path to destruction.

 

AFAIK, FBDs aren't smart enough to detect actual feedback. All they detect is a steady, continous constant-frequency tone, and assume that it's feedback. Sustained musical notes are enough to kick off an unwanted very wide and deep notch filter... been there, done that! ;)

[Alec]

AFAIK, FBDs aren't smart enough to detect actual feedback. All they detect is a steady, continous constant-frequency tone, and assume that it's feedback. Sustained musical notes are enough to kick off an unwanted very wide and deep notch filter... been there, done that! ;)

 

And, of course, need a decent level of feedback before they can detect & address it. So, although you can reasonably tune them in before the performance, they never catch the "verge of feedback" ringing that can be the plague of the voice system in conferences/churches.

[dbuckley]

Aktshirley, the B* Sharks are quite cool in setup mode, which you do when it's all very quiet. Easy in a theatre, impossible in a pub, with the punters in. Take the system to the verge of feedback, press the auto button, bump the slider up a tadge more and sit back. The shark makes ticking noises, and you get a bit of feedback, but no full blown howls. When its done shove fader up several more dB. It really is that hard. Of course, I've already used the mains graphics and RTA to get the response flatish, and maybe a group insert graphic to remove monster howls...

[david.elsbury]

"My" pub band ( that I occasionally mix for) got a DBX Driverack PA. The one time that I was able to try the auto feedback kill/ pink noise room EQ feature, it worked okay- but the main problem with bands such as this is that in my experience as a band you have to be silent up until you start playing so as not to disturb the punters- not even a soundcheck! This makes the use of such devices difficult, especially if you want to lock down the filters before a show...

 

David

[jamesperrett]

I'm beginning to suspect that as there are so few people who know what they are talking about who are willing to use any sort of FBD, perhaps they are a much harder tool to use successfully than a graphic and a good pair of ears.

Possibly the people who know what they are talking about don't have a problem with feedback. They'll instinctively know how to set things up to prevent feedback and also know which controls to go for if it happens to occur during a performance.

 

Cheers

 

James.

[lightsource]

I use a Behringer Feedback Destroyer at almost every gig, however it is only used as a channel insert on the vocal mix.

 

It cuts various frequencies from FOH, and seems to do it's job quite well. By using it as a channel insert on the vocal mic's, it doesn't affect things like guitarists sustaining a note, or keyboards.

 

It does it's job, and I'm happy with it.

[Peter Chivers]

I've used various feedback destroyers, both Sabine and Behringer as problem solvers for specific purposes. They come in very handy on installations particularly as inserts on speech channels where you can set the beast up, lock it and leave it. You then often have to leave the system in customers hands, often people who don't want to pay attention to the training and advise given as part of the job, but with a locked down FBD, at least you have given them the best possibility of being able to use the speech channel with a minimum of problems.

I fully agree that they are no replacement for a trained engineer, but can, if used selectively, resolve particular issues.

There's the rub again, you have to know what you are doing to use one properly :) .

 

Peter

[lightsource]

I fully agree that they are no replacement for a trained engineer, but can, if used selectively, resolve particular issues.

There's the rub again, you have to know what you are doing to use one properly :) .

Peter

 

Totally agree there Peter, I've seen a lot of people use these devices in between the FOH console and the amp rack, so when a guitarist sustains a note, one feedback frequency is lost and an unwanted gained altering the overall mix. Thats why I only use them as channel inserts on the main vocal mix, or on occasions, a sub-group insert from a set of mic's.

[TallMike]

Totally agree there Peter, I've seen a lot of people use these devices in between the FOH console and the amp rack, so when a guitarist sustains a note, one feedback frequency is lost and an unwanted gained altering the overall mix. Thats why I only use them as channel inserts on the main vocal mix, or on occasions, a sub-group insert from a set of mic's.

 

I reckon they're near useless as a live tool for pretty much that exact reason - someone whistling can set them off - but in a controlled situation whilst ringing out the room etc. they can work- just to pinpoint a few frequencies accurately, leaving your master graphic for the less obvious ones.

 

Mike