Dimmer Racks in Schools

[peternewman]

Without meaning to add fuel to the fire, at my previous job, Stage Electrics more-or-less refused* to put in a mixed-phase patch bay (not necessarily a patch bay which could allow cross-phasing, but one which contained mixed phases in same casing, AFAIK was the reasoning).

At another school I know of, their patch is split into the phases, with large wooden panels between phases so the patch cables won't reach between different phased dimmers. I'm pretty certain that was Stage Electrics too. Although I think we also worked out in the end they had run the DMX through the dimmers backwards.

[Ynot]

There is nothing wrong with a system designer deciding that for a school installation it is appropriate to keep phases separate.

 

Likewise, deciding that the risks involved with the use of the larger CEE17 connectors are too high is a reasonable judgement call.

True.

My point was that whilst in some circumstances it may be adviseable, it is in no way illegal to mix phases on a patch bay.

[Trunker]

Sorry guys for causing an argument over this but it is what I was told. With Dimmers like the chilli's don't they just connect them straight into a RCD instead of the 63a ceeforms? This I think is advisable as 'you cant stick fingers in sockets'. Anyone agree?

[JMC]

There's no reason why you couldn't do that with Betapacks, or any dimmers on the planet!

 

I don't really see the point to be honest. There's always going to be a socket you can stick your fingers into, somewhere. At least it teaches that "fire is hot" etc..

[benweblight]

My school got the same response from Stage Electrics on a recent quote, advising a hardwired system instead of the seperate racks on the tender. However we don't have a three phase supply, so it is not to do with this. I think the idea is to keep it simple for users who may not understand about patching etc., I can see the sense in this, however one problems we are having with our current system is having the wrong number of circuits where we need/don't need them so the flexability would be useful, and also to facilitate the necessesary number of circuits in the new system, this would mean each circuit would have to be atleast paired in a hardwired system.

[JPSTechie]

In our new (6years old) Drama block we have 4 Zero88 Betapack 2's, of which 2are on red, 1 is on blue and 1 is on yellow. We patch between them and can put any sockets on the rig into any channel on the dimmer. There are skickers on the rig saying "Possible 415V between outlets". Every body that uses the rig understands this but is it a problem.

[paulears]

If you consider the kind of things we are not allowed to do anymore - this government is keen to ban totally anything they consider risky. The fact that the rule about distance between phases was removed ages ago is a good indication that they consider the issue not something worth worrying about. Now - while mixing phases isn't a problem - in certain circumstances where people will be using the equipment who may be either careless. immature, untrained, etc etc then Stage Electrics are simpl being cautious. As you say, a finger could go in a socket 'hole', people could do silly things when rigging - so reducing the pin to pin voltage possibilities does make some kind of sense. After all, if you stick a little plate on the kit proclaiming the extra voltage, you must have had a slight concern to consider doing it?

 

In this day and age of cheap dimmers - hardwired outlets and more dimmers makes sense. In many cases now, the patch bay and the labour required to wire it costs more than extra dimmers!

[Simon Lewis]

Sorry guys for causing an argument over this but it is what I was told.

 

Ah, but it's better to quote from an authoritative source, otherwise the usual myths will prevail ;-)

 

With Dimmers like the chilli's don't they just connect them straight into a RCD instead of the 63a ceeforms?

For a fixed install, I can see quite a few benefits in this approach. Others have highlighted the fact that you cannot easily use the dimmer elsewhere when it's hardwired in.

 

This I think is advisable as 'you cant stick fingers in sockets'. Anyone agree?

Again, a reasonable argument, but you could retain the flexibility and maintain safety by using a Ceeform outlet with mechanical interlock.