Alexb_01 Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Hi, I have found a box of Birdies at school, some transformers, some lamps (MR16) and 15A plugs... They don't seem to be in a good state by any means, Could someone just explain to me how one should wire Birdies to a transformer so I can see if any of these work. Many thanks in advance, Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryote Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 hi, I don't mean to be funny but if you don't know how to wire up these birdies then its not really something you should be trying. Get someone with a electrical experience to wire them and PAT test them. Regards Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 You'll probably find the birdies already have a length of cable which won't be long enough. You can experiment with some plastic block connectors to get the length a bit better, bearing in mind they need fairly hefty cable if you don't want them to be very dim!. The transformer is the only real issue here - most will have screw terminals for the 12V output. Some could have a short captive mains lead - if so, if you put a 15A plug on the end things should happen. As you are at school, it isn't your job to test them - you've probably got a technician who will check what you've done, test if that is their rule, and see what happens. I don't see a problem with you doing the wiring up - even if the mains connection has to be connected by you, rather than a pre-wired one. The critical thing - and it isn't just an annoying rule, is to make sure somebody else says it's safe. If - worst case scenario - you plugged it in and died because you'd made a big ####-up - then somebody will get the blame. So you could be dead, and somebody in your department could be in very serious trouble, even if they had no idea you were doing this! (because somebody would argue that they should have!) Many schools and colleges in my experience do have knowledgeable students, but they are still students, and as such MUST be supervised, checked, monitored etc etc. I went back to my old High School a couple of years ago (remember the one where Gene Vincent caused havoc?) and they still had the old WEM 40W PA system they bought in 1974. I knew it was the same one because the mains lead still entered via the slave jack socket hole, because some idiot had lost the proper mains cable. I'd be pretty sure that the person who did this would have wrapped a bit of tape around it inside, possibly even twisting the wires together, rather than using the correct connectors. Nowadays this kind of bodge would never pass, and the student concerned given a decent kicking! I wonder who would be to blame if this has not been put right after the mess I he made of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceecrb1 Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 I agree with everything said.. get a tech to do it or guide you through it.. (I preffer the guide you through it, its the best way to learn!!) dont feel that because it says 12V and not 240V its "safe"... ever seen what happens when a spanner touches both the terminals of a car battery? It can split the spanner in half! I managed to trip the power of my entire warehouse repairing a 240v - 12v transformer on thursday... all because some muppet changed (why I dont know) the lables on the transformer when it was last repaired and I didnt use my eyes to check it properly .... ie 240v into whats essentially a short circuit! flash! bang! darkness! Also remeber that the 12v birdie cables only can be around 10 meters long before the voltage starts to drop due to cable resistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexb_01 Posted June 23, 2007 Author Share Posted June 23, 2007 Thanks for replying, bearing in mind what you have said so far I think I will find someone who already has the knowledge to guide me through it. Unfortunately the guy who's meant to be in charge at school started this year has no experience and in most ways my technical knowledge is superior to his. For example last week when asking him if he knew where the DI boxes had gotten to his reply was 'what are they?'... The guy who he took over from is coming in next week so I will ask him if he has a moment or will wait till an ex-student, who is now studying lighting in Liverpool, comes down and could give me a hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 If you are a student, you may have the skill, and knowledge BUT you do not have the authority to do the job. Work with the school tech As they should have the authority to do the job and you should have the skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruff Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Also remeber that the 12v birdie cables only can be around 10 meters long before the voltage starts to drop due to cable resistance.If the transformers are electronic, then the cables can only be about 2 metres long. This is because electronic transformers work at high frequencies, and the capacitance of the cable becomes very significant. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 If you are a student, you may have the skill, and knowledge BUT you do not have the authority to do the job. Work with the school tech As they should have the authority to do the job and you should have the skill.Also, the school tech (assuming he IS a tech) should have skills that will allow him/her to work out what is what in a given situation. THAT is what makes a good technician - NOT knowing everything about anything, but being able to assess and deal with a technical issue/problem etc. It's no surprise a new tech may not instantly know what a DI is or does, but if it's necessary for him to know he can and should find out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 I don't mean to be funny but if you don't know how to wire up these birdies then its not really something you should be trying. Get someone with a electrical experience to wire them and PAT test them.If you don't know how to do something, you should never attempt it... you might actually learn something! I understand what you're saying, electricity being somewhat hazardous and all, but we're talking about birdies, not the innards of a 2kw arc lamp. You guys probably would have shot me when I wired two car battery chargers in series in to a Colorkinetics power supply with a blown transformer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekij Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Unfortunately the guy who's meant to be in charge at school started this year has no experience and in most ways my technical knowledge is superior to his. For example last week when asking him if he knew where the DI boxes had gotten to his reply was 'what are they?'...I've built DI boxes from discrete components before and I've been known to forget their name. It's something that happens when you get a bit older. Don't write off people over 30 just because they forget a name or two. An old saying seems to come to mind "He's forgotten more about theatre than you know". (Of course he may truly know nothing about it, in which case you are in the situation we often find ourselves in in real life where our supervisor/boss can't do our job. It'll be good real world experience for you learning how to lead him politely and with respect towards the answer you want him to give you http://www.btinternet.com/~boxzone/Other/Smilies/Smilie_wink.gif) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seano Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 If you don't know how to do something, you should never attempt it... you might actually learn something!Heh. Good point, you learn a lot from making mistakes - as long as they're not the kind of mistakes you only get to make the once. :) ever seen what happens when a spanner touches both the terminals of a car battery?Yep, never seen a birdie transformer that'll deliver upwards of 600A into a short-circuit though. some muppetHm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Learning is about stretching your competencies and knowledge, sensibly you should understand the last step before you try for thre next step, your college has to be certain that you learn safely. At my school a maths teacher was a career change approved electrician. Even though actually qualified to do electrical work, the education authority would not let him even change a plugtop fuse - because he wasnt employed as an electrician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac.calder Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 I've been known to forget their name. Especially when you combine that with objects like Distribution Amplifiers (DAs), Digital Interface Cables (DI Cables), Digital to Analogue converters (DAs) etc. It also depends on where you are trained. Some places use inhouse names for certain objects. Control Surround was called "PortOps" (portable operations booth) at one place I worked. It was the same stuff - push up poles, cross beams and drapes. It took me yonks to begin to link "cannon" connectors with XLR-3 instinctively (seems to be big with DJ's "How can you send me your sound"... "I have cannon or phono."... ... ... "Huh?") Don't write your new technician off yet... maybe he just needs to learn the lingo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 I understand what you're saying, electricity being somewhat hazardous and all, but we're talking about birdies, not the innards of a 2kw arc lamp.Hmmmm... The LV side of a birdie transformer may well be 'safe' but there is also a 230v side, and as the lad says - he found a box of Birdies at school, some transformers, some lamps (MR16) and 15A plugs...followed by They don't seem to be in a good state by any means.... There was another post above from Jivemaster which said At my school a maths teacher was a career change approved electrician. Even though actually qualified to do electrical work, the education authority would not let him even change a plugtop fuse - because he wasnt employed as an electrician. So the question isn't whether the OP is capable in any way of wiring either side of the trannies, BUT whether he should be allowed to.This is one of those areas of H & S that I wholeheartedly concur with.Electricity is one of those things that is inherently dangerous and should be tackled only by those with training and experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 The level of concern about safety here is higher than I'm used to. I noticed the same thing both times I've been to England. Is this a British thing? Sorry if this is seen as off-topic or offensive - neither is intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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