Birdies

[Ekij]

Zak,

 

Your profile doesn't tell us where you are from so it's hard to compare safety in the UK with safety wherever you are.

However safety in the UK is very high, probably the higest in Europe and higher than the USA.

[Ike]

The level of concern about safety here is higher than I'm used to. I noticed the same thing both times I've been to England. Is this a British thing?

Quite possibly. There are probably also quite a few people who won't necessarily post things they would normally say or do in real life on a publicly viewable forum. Having said that at least we don't have TUV!

[paulears]

Zak - where are you, your profile doesn't say you are not in the UK.

 

The really silly thing is that when I was at school, and probably until I was about 25, I think we all did things tha we wouldn't allow people to do now. Looking back, I remember treating 240V with the same respect as 12V - it just hurt more. Everything I built - pyro devices, colour wheel remotes, and for a while even coin operated gadgets like clever-ish change machines, were all mains powered, with logic from mains relays with open contacts, worked directly off the mains, with the only protection being the fuse in the plugtop. The thing was I got a few 'belts', but none that killed me. I thought little of joining cables by twisting the wires together and taping them up. I remember doing all these things pretty well on my own, and with no supervision at all, and nobody worried at all. No risk assessments, no paperwork, nobody asking any questions at all!

 

I KNOW that I learned an awful lot from it, and it has done me a lot of good - BUT, nowadays, none of these things are allowed any longer, and from the safety perspective, rightly so. It frightens me thinking back about what I did! My dad, and my teachers had no idea at all what I was up to, they only saw the results.

 

If people came up here and asked these questions, we would shout NO loudly and doom and gloom the process! My own view is that it has now gone too far, and everything has to be so risk free that people don't learn by doing, they learn by talking about it - and real practical experience is being lost. Moulded plug mains cables are my pet hate - they've stopped people learning how to put plugs on. One of the most well received classes at college was when I got people to make up 15A cables - they soon learned the skills, but I was amazed that I had so called technical people who didn't know how to do it. They weren't thick, just never done it before. They all knew which colour went where - but doing it was, er, entertaining. We lost count the number of times the leads got shorter, just because of over enthusiastic baring of the ends!.

 

Getting Birdies wired up and working is a great thing to do - and all it needs is a bit of monitoring and testing to make it safe!

[cedd]

The mention of 15A plugs suggests dimmers to me. Are these transformers dimmable? Surely the thyristors chopping is going to upset the DC output when dimmed a lot? I'm not too up on dimmers I'm afraid, but I seem to recall attaching a transformer to a dimmer is a bad idea. Might be wrong, and they may be designed for it.

 

Just a point, ask around and try to find out why this box has been hidden away for do long. If theywere serviceable I'd hazard a guess that on a school budget, they wouldn't be just sat there, they'd be in use. Maybe they're not for a reason? Good idea to check back and see if anybody else knows.

 

And at my school we had to change from 5A to 15A plugs every time we moved a lamp from drama studio to theatre, and all were done by us and then inspected by the site manager.

[Zak]

Zak - where are you, your profile doesn't say you are not in the UK.

It does now.

 

I'm not opposed to paying attention to safety, I just think that the level of risk involved in certain activities is often overstated. Wiring birdies to a transformer is the sort of thing that any reasonably intelligent person (without prior experience) should be able to do based on instructions posted online. It shouldn't require formal training, certification, government inspection or paperwork.

[Ynot]

The mention of 15A plugs suggests dimmers to me. Are these transformers dimmable?

Yes - most transformers available these days are indeed dimmable. they should/will say on the box if they are.

Just a point, ask around and try to find out why this box has been hidden away for do long. If theywere serviceable I'd hazard a guess that on a school budget, they wouldn't be just sat there, they'd be in use. Maybe they're not for a reason? Good idea to check back and see if anybody else knows.

Good point

And at my school we had to change from 5A to 15A plugs every time we moved a lamp from drama studio to theatre, and all were done by us and then inspected by the site manager.

Cheap labour, then!Surprised it was actually allowed.

 

 

I'm not opposed to paying attention to safety, I just think that the level of risk involved in certain activities is often overstated. Wiring birdies to a transformer is the sort of thing that any reasonably intelligent person (without prior experience) should be able to do based on instructions posted online. It shouldn't require formal training, certification, government inspection or paperwork.

These days, the litigousness of our society (something we inherited from your side of the pond...!) dictates that a LOT more activities must be more tightly maintained and monitored.

 

Like paul said above, I was also one of those who originally learned by doing when I was in my teens, and also I too shudder at what I used to do! My fastest learning curves came, by the way, in my attic at home, when fumbling around with a fading torch (US=flashlight) because I couldn't be bothered to find a lead-lamp - the main lighting up there wasn't working. I fumbled around in the semi dark and ended up oking my thumb into the empty but live lamp-holder on one of the eaves - got quite a decent belt off it and darned near fell backwards through the hatch!

Taught me several lessons, that did!!

 

But in the OP's position, these days at schools in the UK, there are (or should be) strict rules on what students can and cannot do - and to an extent, teachers. Working at height, with electrics, etc etc.

 

Yes, it has indeed gone too far in some areas, and I will moan about those with the best of us. But there are still responsibilities to be observed.

[Zak]

I prefer common sense over strict rules. We've all heard "common sense isn't common", but I think that's not as true as the cynics among us (me included) sometimes believe. People (yes, teens are people too) show remarkably good judgement when they know they can't hold anyone else responsible for the results of their actions. Common sense dictates that you don't stick your fingers in light sockets, climb wobbly ladders or overload circuits. If you don't know this by the time you're a teenager, maybe a shock would do you some good.

 

As for litigiousness, someone from your side of the pond figured out the solution long ago: "the first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."

[Ynot]

I prefer common sense over strict rules. We've all heard "common sense isn't common", but I think that's not as true as the cynics among us (me included) sometimes believe. People (yes, teens are people too) show remarkably good judgement when they know they can't hold anyone else responsible for the results of their actions.

<sighs>

Everyone can lose sight of their common sense from time to time, and yes, there are many who possess very little to start with.

Without wishing to insult the teens of this world, it's a practical fact that youngsters can in many cases NOT exercise the sense they were born with for any number of reasons. Bravado, on a dare, inexperience, and my all-time favourite... Thinking they know more than they actually DO know.

 

I'm all for allowing kids to experiment, but at the same time, having two of them myself, 10 and 13, I find myself indoctrinated as are all modern parents, into the prevailing attitudes of over-protection.

 

But by the same token I see them lose their common at the drop of a hat.

 

And things are VERY different these days from when I were a lad. Attitudes for one.

 

And whilst the general protectiveness of the work-place and teaching-place may seem at times overly so, then in some ways I'd rather that than a "let it all go" approach.

 

I have to say though, that

If you don't know this by the time you're a teenager, maybe a shock would do you some good.

sort of demonstrates my point above...

As a teen you do NOT know everything about anything, and are also far more likely than a more senior person to make foolish errors in judgement.

[cedd]

If this school is anything like my school, the OP will be teaching the drama staff, the site team and the maintenance guys how to do it!

The appalliing thing is that since I left they haven't once used a single intelligent fixture and the rig hasn't been changed, re-gelled or anything. They turn it on for concerts and move the piano until it's in the right place, everything else just doesn't get used! It's been 3 years now!

 

Sorry, rant over.

I agree that most of the people I came through school with lacked any common sense at all. However there were a few (I rather edgily put myself in this group) who were reasonably careful and trusted by staff. Until they clamped down on climbing it was always agreed that I was by far the better person to do the focussing because I knew how it needed to be and it's far easier than doing it through someone else by remote control. Now I've got my ladders certificate and harness (for as much use as it is up a ladder, but the site team like to see you've got one in your kit bag) I'm waiting for the call back to re-focus. From what I can gather, the site manager used to spot check the plugs on 2 or 3 laterns and then leave the rest. Oh the good old days!

 

In short, a lot of the people (not all) in educational establishments who are in a position of technical authority (site teams as opposed to theatre techs I normally say) really aren't qualified or knowledgeable enough to stick their noses into their theatres. I believe it was a site manager at one school I worked at who insisted I didnt use my 9v DC cable (between a Wall wart PSU and a radio mic - plugs on both end and socket on the radio mic and wall wart) until it was PAT tested! Even after I explained that the PSU was PAT tested and the lead was 9v DC he raised his voice and said "I strongly advise you don't plug that in young man!". My answer "I strongly advise you find somebody else to hire kit from next time" and went for a coffee!

 

Doesn't help that the head of drama had never worked in a theatre in her life!

 

Sorry, just caught myself ranting again!

[Zak]

Now I've got my ladders certificate

I had no idea such a thing even existed. The fact that it does is exactly what I'm complaining about.

[Nick S]

Just a point, ask around and try to find out why this box has been hidden away for do long. If theywere serviceable I'd hazard a guess that on a school budget, they wouldn't be just sat there, they'd be in use. Maybe they're not for a reason? Good idea to check back and see if anybody else knows.

 

Although, I've lost count of the number of times I've found gear in schools and colleges that is in perfectly good order but people have no idea what it does / know it's there...so it just gets left alone. You do a school show, someone buys in some gear, it gets chucked in a cupboard at strike, the person who bought it leaves, nobody ever speaks of it again...I've even come across a perfectly good Sensor rack this way.

 

 

Doesn't help that the head of drama had never worked in a theatre in her life!

 

I don't believe past employment in a theatre is a requirement to teach secondary level drama. If it was many extremely good teachers would be out of a job.

[paulears]

for the vast majority of the current GCSE and BTEC specs, professional experience is nice to have, but by no means essential.

[ceecrb1]

for the vast majority of the current GCSE and BTEC specs, professional experience is nice to have, but by no means essential.

 

<makes sweeping character statement> is it not true that generaly drama teacher type people arent technician type people and vice-versa?

a different breed of person with different knowledge skills but in the same field of work...

in an ideal world there would be "technical drama" and "on stage drama" classes, teachers and exams in schools but money is always going to prevent this...

 

having said this, I went to a tiny school with ZERO drama facilities, I grew up helping my dad on shoots or at conferences for his television/conference production company... I learned everything I know about the industry by being a runner or cable basher/ runner when I was young and growing from there.. the interesting thing is, I'd say I'm far better than most techs in some areas and far poorer in others, BUT I dont know which of the two is better

I'd say I'm better at rigging, and problem-solving under pressure (ie kit failures) and where school/"qualified" techs are far better desk-jockies and "designers" and than me! (just an generalisation, not stating that any person from any group can/cant do a task etc)

[Renny]

Once again I am amazed at the amount of school pupils who are so much better at being a theatre technician than the technicians in their schools. It's a wonder these people get through the interview process.

 

Lets look at the fact that the OP is unsure how to wire 12v birdies, yet considers himself better than a person who is incumbent in the job.

[J Pearce]

Often schools are offering far too low a wage to interest anyone with experience or training.