Psychedelic Theatre Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Hehe, thanks Mark. So in that case, the OP would be wise to either get two amps, so both are onstage and it would be unamplified signals going down the multicore? What about two amplified signals? Is that ok, or would it interfere with the sends? (Just trying to think of cheaper ways so that there isn't the need to purchase another amp.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Langfeld Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Using 0.5mm or 0.25mm when 1.5mm or 2.5mm is required isn't really a good idea, is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychedelic Theatre Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 *Bangs head against wall and returns to lx dept.* Just realised what I said!! Sorry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPAman Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 1.5mm or 2.5mm is available as 4 core speaker cable and could be wired to take two speaker outputs from the mixer amp to two speakers on stage. This would require a little break out box on stage, (or a split at the end of some sort). In fact a box at both desk & stage end would allow an off the shelf 4 pole "speakon cable" to be used, so that in the event of the odd larger event hire or borrowing is not a problem. Edit: Mods. I had a problem finding this thread again. Should it be in Sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh 2 Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 Thanks very much guy's, I've been reading the posts, doing searches, staring at my mixer and reading manuals… plus a bit of head scratching! From all the valuable advice you've given me, I think I have a plan. Does this sound halfway correct… Get myself a stage box/multicore and run it to my desk in the 'sound area'. Plug all the signals into the stage box. Run 2 speaker cables (2.5+) from the desk back to the stage. Allocate/run one (L&R) of the desks Aux line level sends to a s-b/multicore return. That would be my basic cableing ? Now I have the choice/decision of whether to… 1. connect the desks speaker outputs to the FOH speakers and the Aux send to the stage amp which would supply the monitors or 2. connect the desks speaker outputs to the monitors and the desks Aux return to the stage amp/FOH. (I think we have discounted the option of using the desks amps one for FOH and the other for monitors… yes?) Have I got this right so far or is there another better option and/or is there any preference between 1 and 2 above? Next I am going to need an external 31+band EQ unit. Will I need two EQ units, one for FOH and one for monitors? Going back to the stage box/multicore, I've been looking on the net shops and 'most' seems to have XLR returns. Would I need to replace these with TR/TRS jacks to match the sends on my desk and inputs on the stage amp. In other words, is the multicore that comes with commercial stage boxes suitable/adaptable for jack connectors! To everyone that has helped me and put up with my limited knowledge/basic terms… thank you very much. To the forum admin/mods… thanks for the opportunity to use the board and apologies because I think the thread has developed into something more suited to other sections! But really… sincere thanks to all, I think I am slowly getting there. Josh. 1.5mm or 2.5mm is available as 4 core speaker cable and could be wired to take two speaker outputs from the mixer amp to two speakers on stage. This would require a little break out box on stage, (or a split at the end of some sort). In fact a box at both desk & stage end would allow an off the shelf 4 pole "speakon cable" to be used, so that in the event of the odd larger event hire or borrowing is not a problem. Edit: Mods. I had a problem finding this thread again. Should it be in Sound? Hi MarkPAman, Thanks for the info, I was typing my last message whilst you posted. I understand the 4-core, I am going off to try to educate myself on the 'break out' box 'splitter' thing. I did have some query regarding connector/convertors for using the same speakers cable in bridged/non bridged mode, but I'll leave that, as you say, for another section. ThanksJosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minty Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Just to add, when making up your multi run (taping whatever speaker cable solution you use to your signal multi) tape a bit of 4.0mm (or whatever is required) to it for FOH Power. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh 2 Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 Just to add, when making up your multi run (taping whatever speaker cable solution you use to your signal multi) tape a bit of 4.0mm (or whatever is required) to it for FOH Power. Martin Thanks Martin, My sincere apologies, I'm not sure what you mean... my fault for being green. Josh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minty Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 So as you have mains power available a your front of house mix posistion that is on the same phase etc. as the rest of your pa, tape a bit of mains cable of suitable diameter to the side of your multicore.It's also worth considering taping your speaker cable(s) to the side of your mutlicore with electrical tape, so that instead of having to run several cables to your front of house position you can run just the one.The cable will then end up being quite heavy so you can either (as people have suggested) keep this on a drum of put it in a flight case / box of some kind by coiling into the box in a figure of eight. Hope thats a bit clearer mate, Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modge Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 What he means is it's common to run power for your desk along with your multicore so as all your power comes from the same place. I'm not sure how many people bother at the pub end of things where all the sockets are probably on the same ring main any way but as soon as you do anything bigger it becomes relevant. It certainly wouldn't do you any harm to start out doing it right now. The the sizes people have been giving in mm's (which should really be mm squared but it's easier to type) are the cross sectional area's of the copper part of a cable e.g. minty is saying you should use cable the copper bits of which are 4 mm in area. To be honest that seams a bit OTT for pub gigs too - through again I guess if you do it that way you'll have a lot of room for adding more stuff at control. You'd get away with (easier and cheaper to buy) 2.5 mm cable at this stage. (before it's pointed out for me: they'd be less voltage drop with 4mm but ... 10 - 15 meters of cable? the difference will be to trivial to be an issue) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minty Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Modge, I agree I was probably being a bit OTT, call it future proofing! Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh 2 Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 Thanks Martin, Modge... got it, a good tip. I suppose phasing etc is all to do with reducing gound hum. My home hi-fi seperates are all earth strapped for this. Big problem... I'm in Spain and the A/C outlets aren't polarised, plugs even earthed ones, go in either way round, so unless everything comes off of one supply and you know what way (live/neut) each plug is wired, it's difficult. Add to that the old Spanish system isn't ring main, it's usually all spurred and sometimes with ground rods, it becomes a headache in itself. I've made up my mind... no outside venues in the rain!!! Thanks again,Josh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_s Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Forgive me if someone's already mentioned useful books, but I can recommend Live Sound Mixing by Duncan Fry as a very good introduction to the basic components of a PA system and how to get the best out of it. It won't necessarily tell you if using your studio mixer in a live set up is going to work, but plenty of other people here have given you advice about that. The nice thing about the Fry book is it's about listening to what you've got and making it work rather than getting the best kit you can't afford and .... for instance, re monitor mixes - he gives a suggested list of what each band member might want in their monitor if you have sufficient mixes - a useful starting point. There's also a checklist of good vocalist behaviour - remember the band may need to do certain things to help you achieve a good sound (like guitarists turning their amps down as a previous poster has commented) and lots of other useful tips, too many to list here. One Caveat - in the trouble shooting section at the end, in my (very old) edition, there's reference to using 6 inch nails instead of fuses. I believe this to be ironic / humorous, and not advice to be followed.....(disclaimer required in current h&s climate) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh 2 Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 Hi Andy, Absolutely great. I looked at the link amd I AM off to buy it. Thanks very much,Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Some Bloke Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Edit: Mods. I had a problem finding this thread again. Should it be in Sound?Yes it should. Duly moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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