Musicians Earplugs?

[kev-no1987]

I have found a problem with wearing earplugs when working, that fact that you are wearing plugs, after a while you forget they're in and tend to push the volume a bit too much because it sounds the same just quieter and you end up with the venue manager shouting at you for having it a bit too loud. So I tend just to wear them when im on lights, As sayed before you have control of the volume so it being to loud shouldn't be a problem 'Quantity is always Quality'!

[Jivemaster]

It is up to you the skilled professional to look after your hearing, and that of the punters.

 

You may chose to wear muso's plugs for the job, but then you have to watch that you are not pushing the faders to 120db to compensate! You may chose not to wear plugs for the performance but wear protection for noisy work off the actual show, - other band's checks etc.

 

In the end they are your ears and at 100db for two shows a day you are in for a shortened career, and years fighting with hearing aids.

 

Simplified, hearing damage is caused by excassive noise dose -too loud for too long. Only you can keep the dose below the damage range. Reduce the level or reduce the time exposure or both.

[Simon Lewis]

Has anyone considered the additional hazard to the audience that could be presented by an engineer wearing 'plugs?

 

Keep a sound pressure level meter propped up against the desk's meter bridge. It provides a useful reminder of what the level is when your ears have started to go into temporary threshold shift (or you're wearing ER15s!).

[bigglesuk]

Simple rules: -

 

Q: Am I needing to wear earplugs because the level is too high?

A: Turn it down if you can as it will be bad for all the punters!

 

Q: I'm wanting to protect my hearing long term, the level I mix at isn't too high but I don't want to risk damaging my hearing.

A: Wear some earplugs. Being an engineer you are more likely to be exposed to higher volumes more often than your normal punter, so better to take precautions.

 

Q: How do I know that I'm not mixing to a level that is too high?

A: Use a sound level meter, always handy and great for those H&S bods

 

I tend to mix smaller venues with my earplugs in (flat response) just because I want to protect my hearing long-term. I will sound check without wearing them but put them in for the gig.

 

Adam

[Bobbsy]

Bigglesuk makes some very good points. It's always worth remembering that the risk of hearing damage is a function of both the SPL and the duration of exposure. What's acceptable for an audience at a two hour concert could easily cause hearing damage for the guy at the mixing desk who gets the same levels seven nights a week (plus sundry sound checks etc.).

 

The same applies to musicians. It's worth noting that a symphony orchestra, without any amplification at all, can and does create SPLs high enough to cause hearing damage for the musicians sitting on stage. For this reason, many musicians contracts actually require the orchestra management to make hearing protection available to any player who wants it.

 

The British Tinnitus Association has produced a short paper on the risk to musicians which can be viewed HERE. The page also provides details of some suppliers of musicians ear plugs here in the UK (in answer to one of the original queries). Of the ones listed, I've used ACS Ltd. in Harpenden whose website is HERE. They provided a good service and seem knowledgeable.

 

Bob

[alex_kyuss]

I bought a pair of Elacin ER15 from a shop inside boots of all places, and there fantastic I generally find my self wearing them when doing pub gigs with horible sound systems yet a few places I work for have a D&B C4 system and another a EAW KF853(my god are they heavy!) and with both systems I find the volume doesn't need to be loud for it to seem loud. As SteveAATW said I think the quality has a lot to do with it. I have never had ringing ears from either of those systems, neither have I had it from F1. But I don't sound check with them in but put them in once the mix is sitting nicely. Best £164 I ever spent!

 

I did hear a rumor that if you wear plugs through a gig and take them out every now and again that it damages your hear worse then not wearing them, does anyone no if theres any truth to this?

Alex

[avdavesound]

I did hear a rumor that if you wear plugs through a gig and take them out every now and again that it damages your hear worse then not wearing them, does anyone no if theres any truth to this?

Alex

good question because I take mine out now and again during gigs so would anybody know?

 

I got my earplugs from sensorcom. I find them great even on a night out in a club you can still have a conversation with them. actually I think you can hear conversation better with them in in a loud nightclub. I measured a nightclub eaw avolon system in a club recently and the reading was 107db c weighted average !!! that is absolute madness! I am a tinnitus sufferer with hearing damage -25db @3k in both ears with about 3 years and to tell you the truth I would not wish it on my worst enemy, I worked for about 2 months straight on a few different jobs I always carried a meter with me and mixed @ roughly 95db. I just didn't give my ears the night off and I'm paying fot it now!! and to make it even worse I had my ear plugs ordered before the damage and got them the morning after the damage. now thats a kick in the stones!!

[kerry davies]

This any use?

http://www.soundadviceconsultation.info/index.htm

[Bobbsy]

I did hear a rumor that if you wear plugs through a gig and take them out every now and again that it damages your hear worse then not wearing them, does anyone no if theres any truth to this?

Alex

 

This is one for an expert and the Googling I've done so far has not come up with an authoritative answer. However, based on my reading, my GUESS is that the answer is "no".

 

Everything I've found seems to support what I posted earlier: namely that hearing damage is caused by a combination of absolute level and the duration of exposure to that level. For example, levels as low as 85dB(SPL), easily hit even in a noisy city street) can cause damage with an exposure of over 8 hours; a jet plane taking off (say 130 dB(SPL) at 100 ft.) could cause immediate damage.

 

Nothing I've read indicates that a fairly immediate increase in level of 15dB (i.e. taking out the ear plug) is, in itself, harmful, providing the level you're exposing yourself to is "safe". I suspect this rumour started because one of the insidious effects of prolonged exposure to high levels is that you become de-sensitised and stop noticing just how loud things are. By wearing the earplugs, you've protected yourself from the worst effects of this de-sensitisation: you're actually hearing how loud things are which can sometimes be a shock but doesn't do you any extra damage.

 

I guess it's worth saying that the same de-sensitisation effect can also be responsible for "fader creep" unless the sound mixer is well aware of levels and psycho-acoustics. The suggestion of having a level meter at the mix position is a good one.

 

Anyhow, as I say, the above is a guess but one based on a fair bit of reading about the risk of hearing damage and also about psycho-acoustics.

 

Bob

[Jivemaster]

I did hear a rumor that if you wear plugs through a gig and take them out every now and again that it damages your hear worse then not wearing them, does anyone no if theres any truth to this?

Alex

 

And where are we going to find the statistically valid sample size for a long period (working life- 40 years) who have used plugs but taken them out occasionally.

 

Most of the best and official guidance seems based on fact and science BUT also estimates and projections. Some scenarios are too complex to do valid research quickly enough.

[Mr.Si]

I'd be one who'd agree that there is truth in the statement, Alex.

I don't think the ears take kindly to being "Shocked". I can't remember the correct terminology at the moment.

[ianl]

there seems to me to be quite a lot of opinions and guesses in this thread that vary from spot on to wrong to totaly incorect and dangerous.

 

I don't want to discuss it too much because why should you take my advice over someone else you don't know anything about either. just to say that just cos it says so here doesn't make it fact

 

I shall just mention 2 things that jumped out at me from the thread:

 

firstly the noise at work regs are designed to protect workers from two types of hearing damage

1. long term exposure to levels that may not seem loud but over a period of time are progresivly damaging

2. very loud impact noise that is imediatly damaging

 

(ears vary in sensitivity, when something is loud they turn themselves down. removing earplugs in a very loud environment may leave your ears unprotected in sensitive mode which can be equivalent to a very loud imact noise)

 

Secondly the people who are saying that if it is loud enough to damage your hearing you are mixing too loud are in most cases either wrong, or badly misinformed or have their heads in the sand.

 

in order for a band to be heared over crowd noise in even a small few hundred person gig you are looking at acheiving a level of 95 to 100 db which can easily be above the safe working limit. (depending on how long you soundcheck for and how many bands you mix in the night and what you do between soundcheck and gig, and straight after the band your mixing finish)

[paulears]

I'm just recovering from an ear infection that was made worse by the heightened temperature inside by comms headset (DT108). So I spent a few minutes swapping the boom around so I can have the earpiece on the good ear. Last night the show in was VERY loud, so that the two of us in the lighting box could only tealk to each other via the comms - direct communication two feet apart was impossible. The lighting op produced an ear[lg that he used in his 'open' ear, but I couldn't use one because of the infection.

 

A finger shutting my ear off for two hours was difficult, and I'd never noticed the sudden pain when it was removed, just like the previous post.

 

My doctor says I have narrow ear canals, and they seem temperature sensistive. These two things suggest in ear protection (or comms) wll be dificult, and wearing DT109 double earpiece type comms headsets will work, but probably bring back the infection due to the temperature.

 

Any ideas for a third solution? I can't be the only one with this problem. I seem to have permanent low level tinitus, and am keen to stop it getting worse.