Comms over IP

[dbuckley]

Mac Kerr has waxed lyrical about these producs previously, and he's a chap given to calling a spade a spade.

 

I'm unconvinced of the sensibility of replacing a ring of half a dozen party line stations with IP, but certainly as the complexity goes up the case becomes almost overwhelming. Matrix stations are just too much wiring.

[peterskine]

Clear-Com HelixNet intercom is now another IP interconnected solution but with their hardware. Each 4 channel base can power 20 beltpacks where each beltpack can choose which 2 channels they need to access. You can interconnect over the internet up to 5 4-channel base stations for a total of 20 channels and 5 program inputs. With 5 bases, each one of the 100 beltpacks can access 20 intercom channels, 2 at a time and a program channel with separate volume control. The bases can also be interconnected via fiber.

 

HelixNet Intercom systems

 

For an IP only solution, VCOM is still the best. Now it is extremely inexpensive as well. Intracom Systems will rent you the service for US$30/port/month.This includes 2 redundant servers in diverse locations and is usable world wide.

 

VCOM Cloud

[rossmck]

I wouldn't want to trust a hosted IP based system for realtime comms.. There's going to be a lot more latency on that than in a traditional Tecpro system

[peterskine]

I wouldn't want to trust a hosted IP based system for realtime comms.. There's going to be a lot more latency on that than in a traditional Tecpro system

 

Careful monitoring of you internet connections is important. VCOM includes Incoming and outgoing packet monitoring to help. The latency is similar to cell phones. A user in Beijing talks to a user in Germany with the server in Arizona with no noticeable latency which would cause awkward conversations like you often see in TV sat down links. The internet does not travel by satellite and land fiber connections, even around the world are very good.

 

A very useful function is as an IFB feed since the latency is low, TV commentators at remote sites get their cues and remote audio almost in real time and the awkward delay is gone.

 

If your server is local the latency is only a few milliseconds. Across the world as above less than .5 sec -- within the US less than .2 sec is my experience. Listen to the video below. Note that the director and the AD are in different venues in NYC - the server was in Arizona. At one point the dir is doing a count down and the AD copies him IN SYNC -- no noticeable delay. There were 5 different cities connected and the users all had the same experience "it sounds like you are here".

 

Watch a 60 second edited clip of Pete's screen during the event and hear the audio quality HERE.

 

 

http://www.bestaudio.com/intracom/screen.jpg

[rossmck]

Careful monitoring of you internet connections is important. VCOM includes Incoming and outgoing packet monitoring to help. The latency is similar to cell phones.

 

For TV / OB use that's maybe acceptable (and even better than existing services such as satellite links) - but 'similar to cell phones' is certainly not the same as the likes of clearcom / tecpro

 

I'm assuming from the fact that VCOM links to a standard VoIP speed test that it's using standard VoIP protocols such as SIP and codecs such as g711 or g722 ?

 

[ edited to add - Having watched the video the audio quality is definitely acceptable, but I still wouldn't ever use a hosted VoIP service for show-critical comms... Maybe in the TV world (where maintaining links is part of the game anyway) but this forum mainly caters for live theatre, and in the UK more so than the US, so a US hosted service is unlikely to be the sensible option. Also if the internet connection is saturated, or goes down completely, you lose your comms.. Also, imho, a 0.5s lag between the DSM saying "Go" and the LX Op / Sound / Flies hearing it is too long ]

[peterskine]

Careful monitoring of you internet connections is important. VCOM includes Incoming and outgoing packet monitoring to help. The latency is similar to cell phones.

 

For TV / OB use that's maybe acceptable (and even better than existing services such as satellite links) - but 'similar to cell phones' is certainly not the same as the likes of clearcom / tecpro

 

I'm assuming from the fact that VCOM links to a standard VoIP speed test that it's using standard VoIP protocols such as SIP and codecs such as g711 or g722 ?

 

It is SIP compatible.

[peterskine]

Having watched the video the audio quality is definitely acceptable, but I still wouldn't ever use a hosted VoIP service for show-critical comms...

 

The video was about as mission critical as it comes. Show depended on the connections with a particularly critical client, in a multi city event.

 

Again, they were used for intra city connections where previously a kluge of tiffs and sat feeds was used with much less reliability and quality. You are correct, it doesnt make sense to use IP to replace 2 wire wet comms but VCOM can augment existing systems them with a multi channel connections.

 

A few TV stations with low budget have installed these systems and are very happy with them. Even to the extent of using wifi iTouch as wireless stage manager beltpacks. NBC uses them this way at 30 rock.

 

VCOM's power is in internet system interconnect.

 

As for the latency, you can always host the server on your own network and have virtually no latency < 5 ms.

[mackerr]

Mac Kerr has waxed lyrical about these producs previously, and he's a chap given to calling a spade a spade.

 

I'm unconvinced of the sensibility of replacing a ring of half a dozen party line stations with IP, but certainly as the complexity goes up the case becomes almost overwhelming. Matrix stations are just too much wiring.

 

Waxed lyrical? :unsure:

 

The system works, if you look at Pete's screenshot, the "Mac(DC)" is me. In that event, each city had local wired comm system, 3 with matrix systems like Riedel artist, 2 with RTS with dial ups. The coordination between cities was much smoother and faster than using SAT links, and better audio than telephone lines.

 

By the way, this is a real old thread.

 

Mac

[peterskine]

Has anyone started making a network based comms system yet?

 

Another network based intercom system worth mentioning is GreenGoComm

It is a full featured matrix system, capable of 3000+ users and 200+ pl channels over your LAN.

 

NO SERVER NEEDED. the entire system is contained within each beltpack.

 

Pros:

easy to use

use on same network as lighting and computer systems.

32 channels (individual beltpacks P-P or party lines) available within each beltpack

2 channels easily accessible with vc and talk button - other channels user can select

Master stations with multiple channels

3 color cue light system implemented.

 

 

Cons:

not too available in USA

echo if you are near someone talking to you on your channel.

$800 per beltpack

Power Over Ethernet required

home run from each bp to POE switch

simple RJ45 connector not Ethercon for connection

address is level 2 (mac addresses) not IP - separate device interfaces a few channels 4-wire/2-wire and IP

[trussmonkey]

we use this system in our theatre.

 

http://www.rtsintercoms.com/

 

its really good. I have no experience of setting it up but I am an end user. we must have around 50 - 60 wireless belt packs plus im guessing 30 desktop stations plus tie ins to other comms units (dive comm for the scuba divers. they are on 2 way comms with their full face masks).

 

the reception is great within the theatre space. it can drop out/be prone to interference the more walls you put between the wireless pack and the transmitter.

 

the wire less packs have a neat feature called WTA. it allows for rings of belt packs to be set up even on the same channel. for example. show caller is on Channel A but all depts have their own completely separate Channel B . some depts have other channels for talking with specific people/depts as the need arises. Within each individual channel B rings of WTA can be set up so say for example packs 1-5 can talk together 6 - 10 can talk together all without hearing the other WTA rings. the WTA is only heard on the packs specifically tuned to that WTA frequency.

 

I shudder to think how much it all costs !!!

[mackerr]

we use this system in our theatre.

 

http://www.rtsintercoms.com/

 

its really good. I have no experience of setting it up but I am an end user. we must have around 50 - 60 wireless belt packs plus im guessing 30 desktop stations plus tie ins to other comms units (dive comm for the scuba divers. they are on 2 way comms with their full face masks).

 

SNIP

 

I shudder to think how much it all costs !!!

 

Can I guess that you work at the Bellagio? The description sounds like "O". Your link is to the home page for RTS, which is a pretty widely used 2 wire system. You probably have a lot of it, as well as a bunch of Telex BTR800s which are the wireless systems with WTA. Yeah, it's expensive, each 4 up Telex system is close to $10,000.

 

Mac

[trussmonkey]

similar to O but bigger and in Macau. Its the show The House of Dancing Water.

[rossmck]

By the way, this is a real old thread.

 

I didn't notice that - Strange that it was revived with a post almost entirely to promote something..

[trussmonkey]

not promoting something at all. someone had mentioned the system in an earlier post and I was only responding by giving it a thumbs up. im only an end user.

 

 

soooorrry to bring up an old thread.

[mackerr]

By the way, this is a real old thread.

 

I didn't notice that - Strange that it was revived with a post almost entirely to promote something..

 

Where was the promotion? I assume you are referring to Pete, because he posted links to everything he mentioned. He also mentioned 3 different competing products, all of which were pertinent to the OP. It's a shame that when someone offers the benefit of their experience in a forum that is intended to attract the comments of experienced people it is assumed they are "promoting" something.

 

Mac