Yet another problem. DMX in dimmers causes error

[paulears]

I'm sorry peeps, but this is ridiculous.

 

You do not need any qualifications to rig and focus lighting. God, if you did, every amateur and most professional venues would be well and truly scuppered.

 

The only requirement is that whoever does it must be safe, and covered by insurance of some sort (this isn't actually a requirement, just common sense). In a school things will vary. In some, the caretakers do it. In others the teachers, in some, the teachers and the students under supervision.

 

As for dimmers - if they are hard wired, then I see no reason why students can't do the plugging up - no worse than plugging in the mobile charger.

 

I bet HSL are laughing - they get called to a school to rig the lighting. Not their fault the school is so weak on skills. The thing that scares me is that if nobody in the entire school is competent to go up and focus or re-gel a lantern, the standard of teaching must be poor. I don't mean in general, I mean that if you have lighting and technical equipment, there is an expectation of some level of skill from the people who use it.

 

For goodness sake, get the staff some training - it will save a fortune.

 

Last comment - you 'employ' helpers. You mean you have two mates? If the teachers don't know anything about what you are doing, how on earth do you know if what you are doing is correct. Sounds an absolute disaster to me!

[iamchristuffin]

You do not need any qualifications to rig and focus lighting.

 

I wasn't implying that you did, simply that I was told earlier on in my BR life that you had to be a competent adult (or supervised by one) to patch dimmers. I'll try and find the topic).

 

Sounds an absolute disaster to me!

 

Hear hear!

[neilalexrose]

I wasn't implying that you did, simply that I was told earlier on in my BR life that you had to be a competent adult (or supervised by one) to patch dimmers. I'll try and find the topic).

With regards patching Dimmers, I assume it is plugging 15a/5a plugs into Dimmer Packs that you are refering. In response to the above (being supervised etc), can I just mention things like overloading dimmers (e.g. inadvertantly plugging 5k into a 2.5k dimmer, I've seen it done with groundrows) and cross phasing. (not taken into consideration much nowadays, but running different phases down the same multicore isn't always a good idea!)

 

Whilst it is very easy for a student to plug up a dimmer pack so that everything (theoretically) works, dimmer loading and cross phasing (amongst other power issues) should be take into consideration, which is why 'supervision' is recommended to younger BR members.

 

Hell I didn't know about much cross phasing until I was in my second full time job, but I will always remember a technician coming in to check our work when I was working on a youth theatre show when I was younger). We werent allowed to turn the rig on until he had checked it through. He commented all was fine, he just needed to check we hadn't crossed phases with our patching. I didn't understand what he meant at the time, but it has always stuck in my mind, and when I learnt a bit more through experience I understood what he meant.

 

EDIT: In response to the OP. It sounds like its either a short in the 5pin-->3pin DMX cable (check it's wired pin1 -> pin1, pin2 ->Pin 2, pin3 ->pin 3, pins 4 & 5 are not used on the 5 pin XLR. Un-screwing the tail end of the casing carefully should be an easy way to check how the pins are wired, or if not ask a technology/science teacher to show you how to use a multimeter/continuity tester and meter out the pins.)

If the cable is good, check all the other cable being used (it may be that an unbalanced XLR3 has snuck it's way into your collection) then as has previously suggested, check for any termination switches on the dimmers, and make sure they are off. If budget allows a DMX splitter is always useful in these situations, keeps the data for dimmers and movers separate.

Troubleshoot all the elements in the chain by replacing/unplugging, and you should find the problem, then at least you know what needs fixing.

[allymoss]

Thanks for the info.

 

In response to Paulears

 

I can adjust focus, gels, move the lights etc and put them up I am just not allowed! I would If I could, the only place I can put them up is right next to the gantry where you can reach a lighting bar and plug socket from a safe place. We have the ladders etc but none of the teachers will do it for some reason! I will tell them this. We can do everything I think, its just in a School, H&S is paramount with kids aged 11 around! My mates doing the sound have been doing it for a couple of years now and know what they are doing, we are not stupid! (not completely) All the shows we have done and turned out ok, the only one that had an interuption was when HSL were brought in the 1st time and they did the show!

 

 

I do patch dimmers up and turn them on off, change channels of different lanterns etc but I see why it is advised you are supervised when slightly younger than others. We have never overloaded our dimmers (well I haven't ;) ) and I am safe with them.

 

I will check the wiring inside the 5pin-3pin today

 

One of our caretakers is getting qualification for putting up lights as you don't need this, well, he is half way through it anyway!

 

Thanks for all the info

[gareth]

qualification for putting up lights

There is no such thing. People have already told you this. Why don't you listen to people who know what they're talking about?

[niax]

I'm on the crew in my school and I believe the qualification that your thinking of is either a Ladder competence course or a PASMA certification, as my school requires them for using ladders and scaffold towers respectivly.

 

This is probably required by the insurance of the school, as it is here.

 

 

Nick Hollett

[paulears]

Moderation: QUALITY CONTROL - While the contributions of our junior members is always appreciated, our more longer term members are showing increasing unease at their suggestions being discounted, or misunderstood, or mangled. It has always been our practice to give off-forum advice on posting to new members when required. However, we are not always successful.

 

Students, kind of know what I'm doing, I know I do overuse this forum slightly but hey, thats what its here for right?

 

Wrong!

 

The forum is here to allow people to communicate about something most of us find important. Many, but not all members do try to help newcomers and beginners, trying our best to steer them in safe and industry typical directions. I get the feeling we do a pretty good job, most of the time - but in this topic we are simply not going anywhere.

 

The best advice to seasoned members is that the OP isn't listening (or understanding), so further contribution could be futile. The advice to the newer members is to listen, balance the comments made, and if necessary, post back - BUT only if what you are going to say is worthwhile, or adds to the conversation.

 

As an example - we said there is no qualification for rigging lights, the reply was the caretaker is on one!

 

It is quite clear that the school are simply not confiding in you - they obviously feel that sharing some details of the behind the scenes staff activity is none of your business. Your statement about 0% funding shows a complete misunderstanding of how educational funding works, which some of us are quite experienced with.

 

I'm sorry that I feel I have to be so publicly blunt, but private communication has not worked, so this post should be taken as an indication that the membership is not happy with the standards here

Paul

moderator in desperation

 

Some places do have a scaff or ladder course as a mandatory requirement for people to work above ground, but there is a difference between a certificate demonstrating competency and a recognised qualification. A small difference sometimes, but most courses are simply designed to help let the person show they are competent. In most cases, the insurance company call the tune - and what they insist on, they get. Insurance is easy to get if the people supervising are proficient, but in the example here - nobody seems to have a clue, which is odd as most drama courses the teachers may have been on would have some kind of elementary lighting training built in.

[allymoss]

Response to "njax"

Yes, it probably is something to do with ladders and working at heights, I don't know the specifics of it but I WAS TOLD it was something to do with lights!

 

Response to EVERYONE

Problem is fixed, the XLR I was using was shorting pin1 and the shell, I found an XLR wire tester and popped it in.

Lights work perfect now!

 

Thanks to everyone for the info