Filament lamps to be made obsolete

[pritch]

I've recently switched back from split rate electricty

 

Ah yes, False Economy7. I had that at my old studio flat, and the bills actually worked out to be greater than they are for the two bedroom house I'm currently living in. I think working shifts didn't help; I wasn't actually at home to use the cheap electric during the night time anyway!

[mikienorth]

Just a thought that has popped into my head while reading all of this thread again.

 

Task lighting on drill presses, bench grinders, and other moving machinery is often tungsten lighting for a reason. This is so that the stroboscopic effect of flourescent sources is not causing the operators to potentially see a still machine, that is in fact rotating at 50Hz, and the carnage that could then ensue. This is also why factory lighting is a distributed 3 phase system rather than a single phase set up. The tungsten task lighting is still important.

 

Have Brussels thought of that? Have they thought of entertainment lighting? Have they thought of the other cost of CFL manufacture/disposal? Have they thought of the current limitations of lamp size and CFL? (I bet brussel's hasn't but megaman have, and are trying to get round it as we type...) This story first came to my attention on here, about Austrailia I think, and then a week or two later, europe is doing the same thing. Is this just scaremongering by internet scouring journalists, or copycatting/kneejerking by beauracrats?

Or is it another ill thought out peice of planned legistlation. At least it's not at a second reading yet, unlike the proposal to cause all vehicles on or off road to display a registration plate (including motorsport vehicles (GP cars/bikes)

 

The world is going crazy, perhaps it's time to get off?

[Jivemaster]

One of my schoolfriends went on to be a mining engineer. He is having a career surge as an advisor to "thirld world" countries esp several in south america advancing their technology TO mine and burn COAL.

 

Europe is small fry compared with the growth expected in thirld world industry, and that is dirty growth, using Industrial Revolution type technology.

 

UK building regs will be greatly assisted by improved colour rendering in CFLs every time I wash, I remind myself that I don't look ill and jaundiced by daylight, just that CFL in my house.

 

things are improving with CFLs though one doesn't see it for 8000 lamp hours. The first lamps I bought took 3 minutes to warm to brightness now the new ones take 30 seconds. Still not up to the 30ms for a tungsten lamp.

 

One worrying outcome of the new building regs requirement for light fittings to take exclusively lamps of greater than XX lumens per watt is that this could be achieved by the introduction of a new lamp base, then all the BC and ES CFLs would have to be scrapped.

 

CFLs now need to cope with dimming at least as well as tungsten lamps.

 

The one place I really DO like CFLs though is in my working table lamp. A BC pigmy lamp lasts single figures of hours when used on the road but CFLs have no fillament to break so last much longer. esp as they go down to about 3 watts.

[mikienorth]

One worrying outcome of the new building regs requirement for light fittings to take exclusively lamps of greater than XX lumens per watt is that this could be achieved by the introduction of a new lamp base, then all the BC and ES CFLs would have to be scrapped.

 

 

This has already occurred. MK make a ceiling rose with buit in ballast to operate a CFL (PL lamp type) that I have had in the last two flats I rented. Apparently it is a condition of planning or other regulations that new buildings are constructed with at least a percentage of energy efficient lighting solutions. To fit tungsten would require a new ceiling rose. We just bought table lamps.

 

Edit to include quote.

 

And Edited again to include a Linky!! to the MK product I mean.

[peternewman]

MK make a ceiling rose with built in ballast to operate a CFL (PL lamp type) that I have had in the last two flats I rented.

I've seen these before, I was wondering though, do the lamps fit a standard lamp base of some sort, so we may see more manufacturers of both the holders and the lamps which will all be compatible or is it proprietary?

[Andrew C]

Apparently it is a condition of planning or other regulations that new buildings are constructed with at least a percentage of energy efficient lighting solutions.

Yep, that's what I said further up.

I was wondering though, do the lamps fit a standard lamp base of some sort, so we may see more manufacturers of both the holders and the lamps which will all be compatible or is it proprietary?

PL is a standard base. 2 or 4 pin depending on electrical detail. You can buy conversion kits to take these lamps (I have changed all the staircase fittings in the theatre here from 100W to 15W. Plenty of light.)

[Tomo]

Don't Panic!

 

Lighting for Theatrical, TV, Live Events etc are all Industrial Processes.

They are not affected by rules governing illumination of the workplace.

 

Just like the dimmers and lighting consoles are not affected by WEEE becuase they are expected to last for many years.

[lightsource]

Whilst I agree with Tomo's point, I think we're all missing one very important point here -

 

The manufacturers of the electrictry itself!.

 

We're all talking about saving electricity - - - - to them, this is a loss. If we are all going to start saving electricity on a massive scale, then where are the power companies going to increase their profits from ... they're not gonna post a loss, after all the shareholders need their dividend payments, and next year has to be better than last year......

 

Everlasting light bulb anyone? Look at the lamp life of lamps, and discuss.......

 

Also, I've stated this before, and I'll do it again. An average household throws a few hundred watts away here and there.

Businesses, on the other hand throw away Kilowatts daily, through not turning off machinery when not required. I know of companies that leave 30kW heaters on 24/7, where the workforce only works 8 hours per day, 5 days per week.

 

Edit -

 

Why are householders discriminated against, when Industry seems to have a free ride?, weather it's floodlit empty car parks, or running machinery with nobody present. - This is worth mW on an industrial scale on a daily basis, compared to the few hundred watts a householder can save by using energy efficient bulbs.

 

The logic is?

[Tomo]

I dunno - your average householder couldn't afford a peerage I suppose.

[MarkPAman]

Why are householders discriminated against, when Industry seems to have a free ride?, weather it's floodlit empty car parks, or running machinery with nobody present. - This is worth mW on an industrial scale on a daily basis, compared to the few hundred watts a householder can save by using energy efficient bulbs.

 

1mW = 0.001 Watts

1MW = 1000000 Watts

[/pedant]

<_<

 

The point is well made though.

[GregB]

Around the home I use a IKEA K511 (11Watt) the lamp warms up fairly quickly (not really an issue in domestic environment) and the colour temp is warm and nice (042K??)

I have noticed a considerable drop in my bills (gas quickly overtaking LX!)

At work I have also been quick to take action, replacing with long life where ever possible/suitable, even on stage workers.

 

As an aside, I've also started replacing my lighting stock (1kw for 575W) in a bid to reduce emissions, cost...

[Stranger]

I have a random question, do CFLs flicker as they start to die like normal fluros do? And would that possibly be enough to send an epilepsy sufferer into a fit? That could be nasty...

 

Also although the tungsten bubbles we use in the entertainment industry are likely to be safe for at least a while yet, what will happen in ten years time when you're lighting a show set in the 20th century and the director asks for a naked tungsten globe practical? That would be a very hard look to replicate greenly I imagine....

[Peter Chivers]

I have a random question, do CFLs flicker as they start to die like normal fluros do? And would that possibly be enough to send an epilepsy sufferer into a fit? That could be nasty...

I don't know the answer to the question, but it is not just epilepsy sufferer's who are affected. Many people suffer from migraine triggered by flickering fluorescent lamps - I have worked with several over the years, and work with two now!

 

Peter

[musht]

Many people suffer from migraine triggered by flickering fluorescent lamps

CFLs use electronic ballasts and the flicker is in kHz , unlike fluro tubes with magnetic ballasts that flicker at 50Hz. Magnetic ballast also lot less efficent than electronic ballast but still used in lot of big buildings, not much getting said about it. as users might look for a tax break for replacing them rather than the man in street type consumers paying a `carbon` tax......

[David A]

Electronic " ballasts" are switch mode power supplies and while they may be more efficient, in large numbers they can badly effect the power supply, in a similar (but slightly different) way to dimmers and could cause flow on problems to the electricity supply.