Filament lamps to be made obsolete

[The Yellow Transit]

Trouble is, they're only going down as low as equivalent of 40W tungsten for the moment

check my link they sell them down to 18W

[dbuckley]

The New Zealand consumers association recently did a comparitive test of several types of CFLs, including comparitive light output, see here.

[dmxtothemax]

Brussels pulls plug on old light bulbs

 

Traditional light bulbs have only two years of life left after a Brussels summit declared yesterday that they will be phased out in the battle against climate change.

 

The old-style incandescent filament bulbs will be replaced by more energy efficient compact fluorescent lamps (CFLs)...

 

...Calling time on the traditional bulb, first patented... in 1879, Angela Merkel, the German chancellor said: "We believe that each individual can make a genuine contribution through responsible use of light bulbs and lamps."

 

EU sources said that driving the old bulbs off shop shelves by 2009 will be achieved by increasingly tightening the restrictions on what is legal, thereby forcing manufacturers to invest in the new technology...

 

...A Government spokesman said: "Switching to energy efficient light bulbs offers people the opportunity to do their bit in the fight against climate change."...

 

..The eco-friendly CFLs will reduce the EU's carbon emissions by up to 25 million tons a year if old-style bulbs disappear...

 

The Government calculates that if every British household were to replace three 60 or 100 watt light bulbs with CFLs the energy saving would be greater than the power used by the country's entire street lighting network.

 

But there are drawbacks. The new CFLs are more expensive and require more energy to make.

 

There is also an environmental cost to be set against the energy savings. CFLs contain mercury so extra waste disposal rules may be required.

 

Householders will also have to change their habits in other ways. They will no longer be able to throw old bulbs out in the rubbish.

 

British officials believe that CFLs, which use 67 per cent less electricity, will appeal to the public eventually....

Full story here...

Have your say...

 

Looks like the writing is on the wall, then

 

Entertainments represents a very small market in the global scheme of things and even if we do get some kind of stay of execution, once lamp manufacturers start switching over to producing mainly low-energy sources, it will only be a matter of time before producing tungsten lamps becomes unviable for them.

 

How will the Entertainments Industry respond to this little challenge? Will we start seeing discharge upgrades for existing lanterns, whole new product ranges, greater use of LEDs or... what??? :unsure:

 

Your thoughts, comments and opinions, please...

 

 

In Australia this has already begun, when I found out about it, I was at first concerned! because I am

heavily involved in lighting in a med to large church auditorium,

How do I get the real facts? and not the ignorent nonsense being peddled by technically ignorent, but well meaning people.

So I sent off e mails to the relevent government departments, and asked to see the legislation in full with all its details,

after several expected patranising and irelevent replies, I finally got to see the final technical report, and the legislation.

 

as it currently stands in australia, the import of some types of incandesant lamps is prohibited,

must be greater than 220v, ( our mains is 240v )

must be less than 150w,

primary colored lamps are excluded.

 

The government is aware of the bad rap compact floros can get, so minimum performance and quality standards were intrduced to get rid of the cheap crappy compact floros.

 

Those 12v 50w halogens that are proliferating in houses and shops are next on the hit list,

but will only be considered when viable alternatives are available.

 

So stage and theatre type lighting and larger type lamps are currently exluded (this was my main concern).

 

So small type household lamps ( up to 150w ) were a prohibited import as of november 2008,

and what remians as stock in the country are all there is, and as of november 2009 can not be sold at all,

So people are currently hoarding lamps.

 

So people will have to get used to floros, and eventually the cheap ones will disappear and hopefully the better ones will remain, most people are getting used to it!

 

 

But lets be honest! from a practicule stand point, incandesdant lamps were woefully inefficant ,and created lots of wast heat, with the world rapidly becoming highly populated better alternatives were needed.

 

Dont panic yet folks,

But read the fine print!

Dont beleive what ignorant government representive say!

Always research for you selves.

[musht]

But read the fine print!

Dont beleive what ignorant government representive say!

Always research for you selves.

 

Good advice, government representatives may be more in the dark than you.

 

Recently Texas legislature tried to introduce laws meaning that only licensed electrical engineers, architects and interior designers(!) could carry out any form of lighting design, last minute industry pressure stopped it making it to the statutes, stand out line from one of the representatives involved was that they

 

"didn`t realise there was a whole lighting industry"

 

Bit closer to home , Scottish Parliament building, completed 2003 at cost of £450,000,000 , notable in part for the internal lighting design that appears to have been carried out by a fitting salesman, some 12 person committee rooms have more than 100 light fittings.

 

Building,starts having parts of lighting replaced in 2008 to make it "more energy efficient" this mystery energy efficient lighting wasn`t available in 2003....

 

Repeated requests to both of the Scottish Green Party Members for the Scottish Parliament,including

 

Robin Harper M.S.P.

Chairman Scottish Green Party

Chair Committee on Energy Efficiency for Scottish Parliament Building

 

and also my constituency M.S.P. , one would have hoped would understand the issues and have answers available.

 

Unfortunately though claiming it was his committee that made the reccomendations to change the lighting to be more efficient he didn`t have any details at all available. Further requests for information were simply ignored.

 

Concerns about the Scottish Green Parties lack of commitment passed on to the Green Party yields the response that the Scottish Green Party is entrely seperate from the Green Party of England and Wales.

 

Understanding of the issues around energy efficient lighting within the Green Party of England and Wales is seriously limited to say the least.

 

One elected Green Party of England and Wales councillor complaining about the fuss about "renewable lighting"

 

Lighting as an industry needs to raise awareness of its role or experience further ignorance and legisaltion making life harder.

[adam2]

I doubt that the relatively high powered halogen lamps used in theatre lanterns will become unavailable, firstly theatres and similar will be expempt, secondly theatres etc. are the main users of such lamps, no qustion of declining demand, and finally the lamps in question are not even on the list to be banned.

 

The potential problems would appear to be with GLS and similar lamps that are mainly used d0m3sticly,but also used in theatre for house lights, dressing room lights, practicals, working lights, and lighting of bars and foyers etc.

There are still venues using Strand "S type" battens, and even incandescent footlights.

 

As the d0m3stic use of such lamps is banned, production may cease.

Numerous alternatives exist including

 

Compact floursecents, use when possible especialy for working lights, and general backstage use.

 

Mains halogen lamps in a GLS style, use when colour rendering is vital such as mirror lights in dressing rooms

 

LED lamps, already worthwhile to replace very low powered incandescents especialy coloured ones, and improving rapidly.

 

Dimmable CFLs already exist, though not very good ones as yet, the technology is improving rapidly and I believe that they will be suitable for dimmed houselights etc within months.

Coloured CFLs are available and may be suitable for some applications.

 

LED candle lamps are under development, they will be dimmable and consist of a number of LEDs in a clear outer envelope so as to give a sparkling effect in crystal glass fittings etc.

 

At a time when concerns over climate change and depletion of fossil fuels are growing, I would urge both entertainment venues and individuals, to seek to reduce the energy wasted by low efficiency lighting.

 

Some lamp types permitted for the next few years, such as halogen MR16s , may be banned in the longer term and it would prudent not to use such in new or refurbished venues.

[musht]

Some lamp types permitted for the next few years, such as halogen MR16s , may be banned in the longer term and it would prudent not to use such in new or refurbished venues.

 

Mains volatge MR16 should never have been released to an unsuspecting market, LV MR16 has good efficency relatively, remember them being introduced as energy saving replacement for PAR 38, there is no realistic replacement yet available or on immediate horizon.

 

Have to avod baby and bathwater situation.

 

MR16 good, GU10 MR16 uspeakably cr*p ;-)

[adam2]

12 volt MR16s are indeed more efficient than line voltage GU10s or PAR38s, the efficiency is still poor compared to other sources though, and remember that 12 volt lamps need transformers which have losses.

 

The very best LED MR16 replacements are now approaching halogen in light output, very expensive though and not dimmable nor suitable for electronic transformers.

 

I would therefore suggest not having MR16s installed in any new or refurbished venues, since these lamps may well be banned during the lifetime of the installation.

Whilst one could perhaps use LED replacement lamps, it would be better IMHO to specify low energy luminaires in the first place, rather then retrofit lamps which may be a compromise.

 

Electricity is likely to increase in price significantly during the useful life of a new or refurbished venue, and I believe that far more attention should be given to installing low energy lighting (and other equipment) in the first place, rather than the common practice of installing energy wasting equipment, and then wondering how to retrofit it.

[musht]

12 volt MR16s are indeed more efficient than line voltage GU10s or PAR38s, the efficiency is still poor compared to other sources though, and remember that 12 volt lamps need transformers which have losses.

 

The very best LED MR16 replacements are now approaching halogen in light output, very expensive though and not dimmable nor suitable for electronic transformers.

 

I would therefore suggest not having MR16s installed in any new or refurbished venues, since these lamps may well be banned during the lifetime of the installation.

 

I`m sorry, but with the greatest respect for your knowledge believe you are getting caught up in the hype.

 

12V MR16 has pretty good efficiency for a continuous spectrum lamp, more efficient sources such as compact fluro and metal halide are by nature discontinuous spectrums in the visible range.

 

Halogen light is still as described by its father:

 

"the most beautiful light quality of anything on the market"

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/05...nventor_el.html

 

This is not something anyone would honestly describle the output of a CFL as....

 

Modern switch mode lighting `transformers` have efficiency usually exceeding 90%, LEDs need drivers too.

 

Having worked almost exclusively with LEDs for nearly last 10 years , recurring theme is always `these are more efficient than halogen`

 

NO THEY ARE NOT, they weren`t in 2002 and they still aren`t now

 

There is NO LED equivalent for a 50W 12V MR16 , not even close, MR16 format has insufficient surface area to allow heatsinking to this level of performance.

 

The very , very best MR16 LED lamps may be equivalent to around 15W of halogen using 5W of LED.

 

5W LED will of course take slighlty more than 5W due to losses in the driver, taking supply voltage down to something LED likes.

 

If the LED product you are being offered is not dimmable , replace your supplier with a competent one.

 

Electronic transformers are for LV halogen, ask your new supplier to provide you with LED drivers.

 

Its hype and marketing bull that is dragging in the gullible, the buying public, the disinterested ,politicians like the various shades of the green party and now competent well meaning electricians like yourself into this nonsense.

 

Its not new , LEDs were at one point dragged into EN60825, Euro Laser classification system, a new class was created , Class 1 LED because it was intially believed, by very highly qualified physicists, that LEDs may at high power constitute an eye hazard.

 

After the dust cleared, it is now undertsood that the power density of LEDs does not represent an eye hazard and EN60825 Class 1 LED was quietly dropped.

 

In a refurbishment or new build of any value would strongly suggest employing a LIGHTING specialist, seperate from the architect, electrical contractor and other building services specialists.

[the kid]

After the dust cleared, it is now undertsood that the power density of LEDs does not represent an eye hazard and EN60825 Class 1 LED was quietly dropped.

 

In a refurbishment or new build of any value would strongly suggest employing a LIGHTING specialist, seperate from the architect, electrical contractor and other building services specialists.

 

2 points here-

 

1 - I always wondered what happend to the LED class I had a keyring with one on and never got to the bottom of why.

 

2 - IIR from my godparents who have just had 2 houses built on their land you HAVE to have x% of fixtures effieient which means CFL, which has a special fitting to stop other "bad" lights being fitted, this fitting means no lampshades will fit. Thus my aunt now has to live in a house for 18 months that has no lampshades and weird lights.

[adam2]

Building regulations for d0m3stic properties do indeed require that a certain % of light fittings are dedicated to low energy lamps.

A wide variety are available, though builders are apt to fit the cheapest. The better ones take standard lampshades.

 

In non d0m3stic properties, building regulations are setting increasingly strict standards for energy effeciency.

 

The use of MR16 lamps may be justified in some specialist situations, but should they really be the default choice for every bar, restaurant, theatre foyer, office reception area, and home?

 

And anyway no matter how much people like them, it appears probable that MR16 and similar lamps will be banned, not in the near term, but certainly within the useful lifetime of installations being installed now.

 

Our governmemt have commited to a substantial reduction in carbon dioxide emisions, and more efficient lighting will have a part to play.

Most of the population express concern over the enviroment and climate change, but express horror if they personaly have to make any changes.

[musht]

In non d0m3stic properties, building regulations are setting increasingly strict standards for energy effeciency.

 

The use of MR16 lamps may be justified in some specialist situations, but should they really be the default choice for every bar, restaurant, theatre foyer, office reception area, and home?

 

And anyway no matter how much people like them, it appears probable that MR16 and similar lamps will be banned, not in the near term, but certainly within the useful lifetime of installations being installed now.

 

Class 4 LED would have been a sight to behold ;-)

 

Commercial properties are often fitted out by the end user with a very close eye on the running costs as well as the install costs.

 

R3sid3ntial development is often fitted out by developers with no interest at all in running costs, but the knowledge that lowered ceilings and cheap GU10 downlighter rings are a great way to fill space,landfill space that is ,with all the lamps the install will burn through.

 

Ditto with terrible cheapo Part L pendant fittings.

 

There is no current credible alternative to a lot of MR16 applications

CFL and CCFL GU10 retrofits are worse than useless, embodied energy ,shipping and landfill space wasted.

LED again is not a replacement and suspect it may not be for narrow beam applications , anytime.

Metal halide is cost prohibitive at this size.

 

Without credible alternatives MR16 halogen will most certainly remain available for existing and new installations for the foreseeable future.

 

Any technology that may suddenly emerge will have to be available in retrofit form to allow penetration into the installed base.

 

MR16 format is going nowhere for a good many years and will most certainly be maintainable for the safe life of the rest of the installation serving them.

 

Should every home ,bar, restaurant etc be lit with the modern equivalent of 4ft fluro battens across the ceiling?

 

There is a lot of light sources and formats to choose from, with all due respect , architects , electricians and electrical distributors are not always the best people to handle lighting design.

 

Energy efficient lighting in the home is a sop to make people feel their doing something, unlike commercial premises, lighting is very rarely the largest power user in the home.

Heating, computers, TVs have become considerably less power efficient with the advent of large screen plasmas and LCDs.

 

Much more attention should be paid to commercial use of lighting , especially in Public Buildings where the potential for real savings actually exists.

 

Scaremongering people into using inappropriate fittings isnt going to help, it may help some of the electrical distributors margins for a while though until the gaff is blown.

[Shez]

I hope they'll make an exception for lava lamps - they won't work at all without the heat generated from good old filaments...

[adam2]

I hope they'll make an exception for lava lamps - they won't work at all without the heat generated from good old filaments...

 

No formal exemption will be required, most lava lamps use a small "appliance lamp" as used in fridges freezers and ovens, these are exempted already since no LED or CFL can withstand the heat in an oven.

I understand that such lamps will still be sold but must be marked "unsuitable for general household lighting", or some similar wording.

[Bryson]

Interesting article here about how the restrictions are actually driving innovation in the incandescent lamp market. Laser-pitted filaments, anyone?

[Paul_R]

Well, well, what do you know...

LEDs Are As Energy Efficient as Compact Fluorescents!

 

Osram say today’s LED lamps are essentially as energy efficient as compact fluorescents, in the amount of energy needed to create, recycle and provide light.

Osram said it expected those numbers to improve as LEDs become more energy efficient.

 

The New York Times