Has Anyone Worked On These Shows

[Bobbsy]

This is the main problem with Blue Room, you are far more likely to get criticism of your grammar than any helpful advice, especially if you are either a student or a new member.

 

I'm usually one of the ones to stay quiet in this sort of debate but I'm afraid, mbthegreat, you've caught me after three days of flu and headache.

 

You're wrong.

 

The TWO main problems with the Blue Room are an over abundance of students asking experienced members to do their homework for them and posters who ignore advice (which is scattered all over the "welcome to the Blue Room FAQs) and ignore the rules of spelling, grammar and punctuation in their posts.

 

Others have already explained in great detail why both these issues are important. You've clearly chosen, at the grand old age of 16 going on 17, to believe that your views should prevail. So be it, but don't expect a warm welcome.

 

Meanwhile, just to throw your analogy back at you: Maybe, instead of teaching you how to programme chases, your "duty tech" would have helped you far more by saying "Here's the manual. Read it cover to cover then come back to me with any specific queries you might have. Oh, and by the way, around here we prefer it if you have the manners to say 'please' when you ask to be taught something".

 

That strikes me as a better analogy of what happens in this forum.

 

Bob

[mbthegreat]

May I refer the two posters above me to http://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=9126 and suggest they read paragraph 2 carefully

Write clearly and accurately.

It's important that we understand exactly what it is that you are asking. If you are capable of doing so, write in proper english, using no abbreviations, and use punctuation. If we have to spend time deciphering your post we might not have time to answer it.

(My emphasis.)

 

My issue isn't with the rules, it is with the fact that people feel they can attack someone on basis of grammar, despite the fact that while there were some glaring errors the post was perfectly readable and understandable. As I said, what is wrong with saying nothing at all. If bad grammar offends you that much, simply ignore the thread, but please don't have a go at someone asking what may or may not be a perfectly innocent question.

 

I appreciated that you may dislike people asking you to provide them with the answers, but I think you'll find that most of the time it is genuinly an innocent request for help.

 

There is often complaint of us young whipersnappers "knowing it all", but to then turn around and attack someone for asking for help seems a bit illogical.

 

And Bobbsy, I am only stating my opinion, and while it is only an opinion I don't see how being 16 going on 17 makes it any less valid.

[J Pearce]

Perhaps I am old before my time, and I've become a miserable, cynical soul at the age of 19, but often times I feel the same way as the 'miserable old gits'.

 

I'm beginning the find the Blue Room boring and predictable, there is a small amount of decent posting going on, but most of it is people (generally, but not always, young) who come on, leap straight into posting, then take no heed of advice that people have spent their time writing, and on top of ignoring the advice then often go on to tell the advisees that they are wrong and know nothing. If this is the case one wonders why they asked in the first place?

 

I am aware my first topic was a bit stupid, but I listened to the advice offered by the elder and wiser people on the thread.

[andy_s]

As I said, what is wrong with saying nothing at all. If bad grammar offends you that much, simply ignore the thread, but please don't have a go at someone asking what may or may not be a perfectly innocent question.

 

Read Paul's moderation above - he suggests that this is exactly what happened in comparison to another similar question, and the size of this thread is inflated out of proportion by the prevalence of posts about "grammar - right or wrong?" posts over posts responding to the original question - which I must admit I'd be interested to know the answer to.

[Shez]

Straying briefly on topic, the vanish from a chair at the end of Phantom is an effect well known to magicians (I have a background in magic). I don't think any magician will tell you how it's done and for reasons of the NDAs mentioned above, I suspect those who work on the show won't either.

It strikes me that the choice of subject matter for your project is far from ideal as nobody is going to make it easy for you to find out such information. Is it too late to change the topic?

[ceecrb1]

I have to say I agree with mbthegreat.

 

To the others. Did you under stand the question or not?

its a yes or no question with no if's but's or because's

 

Some times I wonder if BR has techs or has theater "trainspotters". I think both.. but one type shouts louder.

"Bringing backsage online" I've never had a tech tell me backstage I didnt ask or tell them with perfect accent or diction.

 

I did. Does it really matter that I'm about to use two question marks and not one??

 

I'm going to reply to the OP. which seems rare in this thread.

 

Ok. Like has been said before, people (be them techs, production or magicians etc) spend a long time designing effects and it can be a main part of a show and therefore worth money.

For this reason they can be closely guarded secrets.

 

You may find some information by doing searches but the poeple who find out the most, I'd say are friends etc of techs and other staff working on the shows.

Truth is you need to be someone like my dad.. worked in the industry all his lift.. has friends in very high places and doors open for him, if your looking for the guided tour with the complete explanation.

[Bobbsy]

I have to say I agree with mbthegreat.

 

To the others. Did you under stand the question or not?

its a yes or no question with no if's but's or because's

 

Okay, I'll bite.

 

No. I did not understand the original question. However, I will invoke my right to give you a "because".

 

I did not understand the original question because it was far too general in nature. Listing 3 shows and asking how "the special effects" were done is an exercise in pointlessness. WHICH special effects? Audio? Lighting? Staging? The post was impossible to respond to in anything but the most general terms...or a 500 page description of every special effect in every show.

 

As Paulears went to great pains to point out, nobody here has any problem with helping students with assignments. However, the questions have to be specific and show that the student has done enough research to have a grasp of the topic they're asking about.

 

However, back to your question. In my view, if a question is too vague to lead to a good answer then "no", I don't understand it. In this case it wasn't the spelling or grammar that was the main problem. That just de-motivated a lot of members from even attempting to answer.

 

Bob

[Just Some Bloke]

Moderation: OK, Bobbsy has put his finger on the problem and this chat about grammar has gone on too long and is both way off topic and not answering the original question. Anyone wanting to talk more about the request in the FAQs for members to use appropriate spelling, grammar and capitals should direct their comments to any of the many threads already in existence on this very topic in the 'Issues' forum.

 

Secondly, Boatman merely pointed out that:

 

It is interesting to note that two pleas for help I think it's also interesting to note that the one {question} which received a great deal of positive response could correctly punctuate and capitalise his writing. The lack of this ability seems to lead to an assumption that the OP is lazy in everything not just their written English.

 

There's a lesson in that alone.

{My bold}

He was not being offensive, just suggesting that the lesson to be learned was that better questions get better responses. If anyone doesn't want to learn that lesson then go ahead and ignore it.

 

 

It is saddening that any useful help is drowned out by the personal attacks, sarcasm and English Language commentary.

 

Actually it's not. There is a huge amount of helpful information on the BR and a small amount of people assuming laziness because of what they see as lazy writing. Let's try to keep that comment to the Issues forum please.

 

To clear things up here is the tidied up version of the original post:

 

Hi there, I am new to this forum. I am a degree student and I have to do a specialist investigation as part of my work. I have chosen "theatrical illusions in musical theatre" and have chosen 3 shows, being

 

* The Phantom of the Opera

* The Lion King

* Wicked The Musical

 

I have tried to find information about the illusions on this forum but no luck and I can't really find anything useful on the net, but that's me, so if anyone has worked on these shows and would like to tell me how certain things were done (I'm not too bothered which ones they are) please either post them on here or PM me.

 

Thanks,

Simon

 

[chris.santry]

<back on topic>

I found this article for you re: Phantom of the Opera - I can sympathise that it's not particularly high up Google's results but I knew I had read it somewhere - I hope it is of some interest. http://www.phantomoftheopera.com/modules/a....article.php/18

</back on topic>

[camerongp]

I realise that you have already chosen the shows you intend to analyse, however...

 

I remember seeing a couple of years ago "Theatre of Blood" at the National, with Jim Broadbent, a huge range of fancy stage effects. I would love to have had a little nose around on stage and look at the various mechanisms that were used.

 

Just wondered if you had seen/heard of this, or if anybody else had. Would be another, possibly not so "mainstream", idea.

 

I also aggree with many of the other posts, that this specific topic is going to cause you some issues with reseacrh etc. Seeing that many of the effects are essentially magic tricks, I don't think the "magicians" are going to tell you their secrets.

 

Anyway...

 

Good luck.

[Just Some Bloke]

There was some discssion here about dyslexia which, as threatened above, has been moved to Issues here.

[Jivemaster]

A caveat to note is that the more valuable (to the rights owners) a show the more protected its secrets will be.

 

If you pick a current West End or Broadway or Hollywood or Disney show then their teams have a great interest in preserving the show's financial value, meaning partly, preserving the show's secrets and effects.

 

Old shows may be easier researchable than current shows. Though that research may take more book work and not be web searchable.

[Just Some Bloke]

I went on a Stage Electrics course last year (or maybe the year before, can't remember) at the Birmingham Hippodrome when they had Chitty Chitty Bang Bang running at the theatre. As one of the members of the course was crew at the Hip we were offered a backstage tour of the venue. We looked around all the backstage areas then he went to take us onto stage, but out of courtesy went to speak to the CSM first to let her know who we were and what we were doing on the stage. After a long time discussing with her he returned rather embarrassed saying "I'm really embarassed but I'm afraid she won't let you onto the stage. Company rule that no-one who isn't crew is allowed on stage in case they see how the flying car works". Clearly, back came the response "we're all professional technicians - we know how the car works, both from looking at it with a technical theatre background and from reading the full details in L&SI." "I know that and you know that" he replied "but rules are rules and you can't step over the threshold and onto the stage. I'm really sorry."

 

Hope that gives you some idea of how jealously guarded stage secrets can be.

[paulears]

I'm nosey too. When Miss Saigon first came out I went to see it and got a bit intrigued by the helicopter. I tried the usual methods of finding out how they did it, but couldn't find out. So - I joined the public backstage tour, which as with most of these things is done by people who don't really understand what they are showing people, and I got 'accidentally lost' - I sought out the helicopter, kicked myself for not realising how it was done, and then got caught and thrown out!

 

My own theatre has a fair share of magicians acts through it, and some will never share a thing - while any others will talk about the illusions IF you already know how they work or at least, appear to know.

 

 

What is it the OP actually wants to know - we've just got a list of show titles - it doesn't help us much.

[Ynot]

I'm nosey too. When Miss Saigon first came out I went to see it and got a bit intrigued by the helicopter. I tried the usual methods of finding out how they did it, but couldn't find out. So - I joined the public backstage tour, which as with most of these things is done by people who don't really understand what they are showing people, and I got 'accidentally lost' - I sought out the helicopter, kicked myself for not realising how it was done, and then got caught and thrown out!

:)

I believe I know how it worked (well the effective bit anyway) so might PM you later for confirmation.

<secretive wink>