Mixing Live Bands

[johnarro]

I'll only add that if you've ever got the time, acquire a copy of "Live Sound Mixing" by Duncan Fry (ISBN 0 646 11235 X)

 

It seems to be a good guide as to what exactly it is you're trying to do and gives you a good lead-in as to how to set it all up especially if you're very rushed for time

 

I think it's now in its 4th edition, and is probably still a bit tricky to find in the UK ;)

 

John

[djmatthill]

yes to clarify again the room is 20 meters high. Awful acoustics to especially on vocals (well spoken word in case) all speakers are monuted in ceiling or in

10 meter high side bulk heads we have about 20 mid top cabs and only 2 subs , very interstesting design ??? but designed for processed recorded music and not raw live sound ????

[Shez]

From your description of the PA, I think you're going to struggle. If you had access to the individual speakers, rather than just a single input for them all, and a matrix on the desk, you could to some extent get around the problems of a distributed system but setting all that up is not a job for the faint hearted.

 

Do you know what sort of speaker management system is in place at the moment? Are all the speakers correctly delayed with respect to the stage? (I suspect not).

 

My suggestion (not likely to be popular with the boss) is to avoid using the house system and get in a rig that can be set up properly for this application. Club playback systems just aren't able to handle live music and will be set up in a way that will make it sound pretty awful if you try.

 

<Edited to add> If you fill out your location info in your profile, I'm sure there'll be a BR member close by who may be able to help...

[AV Ian]

Just to add my tupence to the mix:

 

I always struggle with young/inexperienced bands having amp levels too loud on stage. The bleed into the vocla mics often leads to a muddy FOH sound and results in a lower acheivable level on the vocal mics. If you are micing any of the guitar cabs, ask them to turn the level down a little but be sure to tell them you will have it loud in the monitors. Some bands argue over this but I find most will come round if you appear confident and explain to them why you are doing things.

If all else fails, look after the gear. Don't get levels up on the clip lights all the time. Don't be tempted to keep pushing the levels up. If the band aren't working with you - do your best with what you have then take a step back. You're boss is more likely to appreciate that than damaged gear!

Good luck!

[holly]

I use to run my own night in a small venue on next to no budget I found that

 

3 or 4 monitors (with graphics if possible)

A buntch of SM58's as they are reall relible even when soaked in beer and will last you ages

2 or 3 sm57's for guitar amps and snare drum (you can hang a 57 from the handle of the amp if your tight on space on stage or run out of mic stands)

I and use the link to plug into the amp

A load of DI boxes for your purpose the beringer ones are fine and cheap

D6 mic for the kick

I use to just mic the kick and snare as the rest of the kit is load enough (if not too loud) and most of the time I did'nt end up putting it in the mix but its there if I needed it (quite drummers you do get them)

Reverb unit is essentual for vocals in most bands

Don'y buy really expensive mic stands as bands at that level don't know how to ajust them properl and they tend to get broken.

Buy decent cable as the cheap stuff is fause economy.

If there is an instrument you don't know how to mic up put a 58 on it and you will be ok. (might not be the best mic for it but it will work)

 

as with all gig it depends on what the bands have got, make sure you contact the bands bout 2 weeks in advance so if you have to arrange extra kit you have time to do so

 

good luck hope this helps

[paulears]

Daft question, but your size info seems pretty amazing 50m x 80m, x 20m? With an aircraft hangar size room, the band will hear some very strange things coming back at them without proper monitors. Their 8m x 3.5m stage is big enough, although 20m height above it is neary twice what we have from stage to grid in my 1200 seater venue - which is a quarter of the size of yours. Your room is big enough for a Boeing 737 to sit comfortably in the middle. You mention a 5K sound system with speakers in the ceiling all over? Sounds like a background music system to me. 5K doesn't mean much really, if you add the labels up for my venue, much smaller than yours, it comes to 15K - so you're very under powered for what you want to do.

 

How can the budget be that tight in a venue with space for more than 4000 punters?

 

Can you put me out of my misery - something is really wrong here.

[djmatthill]

Hi just to clarify the room is approx those dimensions . system is very underpowered at minute. The measurements included include sectioned off bits like dining area and bar areas . but still a big room.

 

The system consists of x8 15" + hf cabs , approx 18 rcf monitor series ceiling speakers & x10 peavey 8" +hf ceiling mount speakers

 

and x2 18" bass bins

[mervaka]

sorry to say, I wouldnt even try using the ceiling system. you're likely to hit a feedback loop at the first turn, not to mention the band will frown in dispair! :( as was mentioned earlier, it sounds like a playback system, designed for a totally different application. going budget on this sort of scale is sounding like an impossible task.

[Bobbsy]

I'm going to second mervaka here. I have to admit that the first time I read the dimensions, my brain said "feet" even though my eyes say "metres". You're talking about a huge room, likely with some pretty nasty acoustics unless there's lots of soft surfaces/funny angles/treatment.

 

Trying to use the ceiling-mounted system could be pretty disasterous especially since, contradicting my previous, you WILL almost certainly need to mic the instruments too. A rental system for a venue that big will need to be carefully specced and planned...and will not be cheap.

 

If you do it, good luck...but I'd bow out gracefully.

 

Bob

[djmatthill]

Thanks for all the advice once again.

 

The room is space is stuipdly large and as you imangined the the acoustics are bl**dy awful, sounds like someone playing a transitor radio in a large bathroom :D

 

Think ill go back to the manager with a printout of your feedback on this matter . Your professional advice on this matter is greatly appreciated.

 

 

Thanks again..

 

May have to juggle some figures about and see if one of the major breweries would consider sponsoring our band night and give us some cash :P

 

Wouldnt mind a large JBL line array system installed !!!!

 

but then again I would nt mind spending the night with Angelina Jolie , , ,

 

To be honest I think iv probley got more chance of the night with Angelina Jolie than getting a decent PA :(

 

:)

 

Thank you All !!

[mervaka]

yeah, I'd say he needs to think a bit bigger with a room that size. how many people does your premises normally pull in? a door charge (if there isnt already one) should cover the cost of PA hire quite comfortably.