Which microphone for hi hat ?

[Bobbsy]

The SE300B is "sort of" a successor to the 451, though in a slightly lower price and quality bracket. However, I've used then on high hats with good results. FYI, the CK93 capsule is hypercardioid; I've always used the CK91 which is cardioid so can't comment on the other pattern. As an aside, once you throw a capsule on, the designation number changes, for example to "SE391B" for a CK91. However, in most of the industry people forget the number and call them "Blue Lines" 'cause of the blue line they have around them I suppose. I mention this because, several times I've used the "official" number and got blank stares...but achieved recognition as soon as I said "blue line".

 

I actually like the Blue Lines for quite a few things and have a couple in my kit for various reasons. However, I have to say that if I was spending my own money for high hat mics, I'd probably save some cash and go with the much cheaper SE1A mics mentioned previously. The SE mics perform almost as well (some might say better) for between a third and a quarter the cost.

 

I'll resist the temptation to comment on how harsh and unpleasant I find the sound of the C1000. Oh, dang it. I seem to have commented.

 

Bob

[mervaka]

I'll resist the temptation to comment on how harsh and unpleasant I find the sound of the C1000. Oh, dang it. I seem to have commented.

 

well it seems I'm no longer the only person I know who hates those damn things! :)

[Trunker]

I'll resist the temptation to comment on how harsh and unpleasant I find the sound of the C1000. Oh, dang it. I seem to have commented.

 

Bob

 

 

I have had good results with the C1000, as mentioned, previous. With each individual mic its knowing how it ticks and how to acheive good results with it. Add 'out-board' compression to a mic and the charactoristics change. I have recorded a brass band with 7 microphones and got better results than some other comapny who have used 12+ mics.

 

Carefull mic positioning, clever mix down techniques and common sense will get you good results everytime.

 

Of course recording and live is as far awy from each other as they are close................

[Bobbsy]

As you say, recording is very different from live, but....

 

As long as I'm someplace with decent acoustics, my favourite method to miking a brass band (or some other types of small orchestra) would involve only two microphones, either as a coincident pair or in an ORTF arrangement.

 

I agree completely that microphone placement is the key to quality on any recording and, over the years, I've had many strange looks as I move around performers listening to their instruments deciding on precise mic placements. However, I would normally NOT add compression at the recording stage, prefering to do this later in the mix when I can chop and change without affecting the original track. (An exception to this is that I sometimes add some limiting near the top of my planned headroom, just to make sure an over-enthusiastic transient doesn't ruin an otherwise good track.)

 

Finally, just to say that everyone's ears are different, but to me the C1000 is NOT a pleasant mic in any application...and for the same or less money there are many other microphones I'd buy and use in preference.

 

Bob

[Rob_Beech]

C1000's do have their uses. You can't say they are no good in any application.

 

For example, if ever you need an urgent replacement to a bit of railway track, the C1000 is ideal.

 

Mervaka, you are certainly NOT the only person who is less than fond of C1000's.

 

Rob

[paulears]

I've put up a C1000 opinion poll here

[Trunker]

Bobbsy, sorry I think I have made myself a bit un-clear in one of the things I said earlier. WE DO record everything flat with a Brass Band and add FX and compression on later during the mix-down.

 

How do you find the sound just using a stereo pair of 414's or whatever? When I have used the XY method I have found the mix very flat and boring and very thin. I add in more ambience mics, a Tuba Mic and a Kit mic and it sounds more fuller and you can come across some interesting stereo FX in the mix-down, e.g. Last Band recording I done the band played 'Troika', I placed 414's as XY, a Beyer pencil condensor as a centre in fill, AKG 3000 left of stage, AT4033a right of stage, a D112 over the Tuba and of course the C1000 just behind the kit but about 3 foot above the kit.

 

Mixing it down and playing about with panning etc. I found that I had mostly cymbals on right hand speaker and drums on left hand (although there was spill). When the kit player rolled round the toms the sound rolled across the speakers creating an interesting effect. Everything is where it is supposed to be in the mix as well (as you would listren to a brass band live) , spaced out and clear in stereo.

 

Obviously we would use more mics in a 'Studio' recording.

 

Any thoughts?

[i_hate_fisicks]

Has anyone ever compared an Octava MC012 with the SE Electronics mics mentioned above? Or even more interestingly with the Thomann one?

[Bobbsy]

A lot depends on the acoustic of the room in which you're recording. I've only recorded brass bands a couple of times but on both occasions I've been lucky enough to be in a room that had a nice natural sound. (FYI, it was an old church that had been converted into a performance space.) Obviously the other thing that makes a big difference is the ability of the conductor to achieve a well-balanced sound live--and I was lucky enough to have this going for me as well.

 

As I mentioned, I've recorded this band twice, once using my own mics (C451/CK1 capsules) in a coincident pair and, since we had a budget the second time, once using rented Schoeps MSTC64U stereo pair in ORTF formation. In both cases I spent a lot of time finding the "perfect" location for the mics, which turned out to be just above and just behind the conductor's podium. As I recall, with the Schoeps I positioned the mics slightly farther back than with the 451s.

 

I was very happy with both recordings...a natural balance and good stereo imagery. I personally thought the ORTF positioning (and the Schoeps mics of course) were the better of the two, but wasn't displeased with the first effort either.Having said all that, had I NOT had the benefit of great acoustics a conductor who knew his stuff, I might well have ended up a miking scheme more like yours. Just as a comparison, I've done more big band stuff than brass band and, depending on the location and musicians, have used everything from the simple stereeo pair listed above to close miking every instrument. It was really a case of "horses for courses" (or is that "mics for bands?).

 

Still, I don't like the C1000 though!

 

Bob

 

Has anyone ever compared an Octava MC012 with the SE Electronics mics mentioned above? Or even more interestingly with the Thomann one?

 

I've had the chance to use the Octava several times and, at its best, it's a darn good mic. However, there seem to be quite big variations in the sound quality from mic to mic. On once occasion I was given six MC012s to use and I couldn't believe they were all the same mic. The good ones were up there with the SE range, but some of them sounded pretty dire. Certainly, if I was going to buy some, I'd want to audition each mic before taking delivery.The SE mics, unusually for Chinese manufacture, have seemed pretty consistant to me and I've used quite a few different ones over the last couple of years.Alas, I've not had a chance to play with any Thomann mics.

 

Bob

[robertnisbet]

Rode NT5 on hats if possible please. Fantastic little things!

 

My little StudioSpares pencil condensors do an excellent job on a budget too. Or in fact the Samson CO2 I think it is, another cheapy pencil condensor.

[phil dekked]

Another vote for the Se1`s...great sound for that price?

 

.p.

[BigYinUK]

Bought an SE1a today from local music/audio shop for 60ukp. Thanks for all the pointers and advice. As usual this forum comes up trumps. :P

[mervaka]

thats a damn good price! what are you first impressions of the mic?

[BigYinUK]

thats a damn good price! what are you first impressions of the mic?

 

Haven't tried it yet, but build quality wise it seems exceptionally good for the price.

[Bobbsy]

Yup. That's a darn good price.

 

You have more self control than me. Any time I get a new mic (which is far too often for the liking of SWMBO) I tend to get it home, have a quick look at it, try to play it cool and wait until the next job to try it, have another look, play it cool, read the spec sheet, play it cool...then not be able to resist setting up all the bits and pieces to try it out.

 

Just call me geek.

 

Anyway, I think you'll be pleased when you hear the results.

 

Bob