foh nd monitor mix from one "quality" desk

[The Boogie Man]

Alas John once more I have to be negative. Firstly there are no buttons on my soundcraft 200 as it not a delta.

Secondly it isn't possible to route the channels to both sub groups the switch is 1+2 or 3+4.

 

As we seem to have explored just about every avenue ( and I thank you all for the input ) of this, I think it's time to quietly slide my desks under the bed and buy a gl2400 or maybe a.........................

 

baz

[mervaka]

if you want metering on your auxes on the soundcraft 200 you can hit the AFL button, most desks do this. if you arent using the groups as subgroups, then those come up on meters 1/2/3/4 by default.

[johnhuson]

Firstly there are no buttons on my soundcraft 200 as it not a delta.

 

Sorry I assumed it was a Delta, I thought I had read earlier that you couldn't assign to both groups at the same time so should of realised.

 

Just out of interest exactly which model of Soundcraft 200 do you have as there is a few with 200 in the title. The 200 Delta, Series 200B, Series 200SR, SAC200, 200 BVE. I'm guessing as it's not a Delta it's the Series 200SR?

[dbuckley]

You have to take into account that in a one man show, nothing is "on the fly" The mix between guitars and vocals is all done in rehearsals, marked and then left. (once the balance is set right at the mixer it is still right no matter where you go.

 

Is it marked once, or does it vary between tracks? If the latter then I think you've just sold yourself on a digital solution, such as the little yams, as you can store the desk config as a preset recallable with MIDI. The little yams also have integrated FX units, so you can wave goodbye to your outboard. The integrated FX even have guitar amp simulation; I know you are all DI, so I don't know what your guitar processor is, but the yam may well be enough to get the job done.

[The Boogie Man]

Mervaka, I'll have a look at that, whilst I'm still using the soundcraft. I'm not struck on the idea of using the aux's atall but the desk does have afl so if I sus it out then at least there would be monitoring of mons.

 

John, I've no idea what model of 200 it is. It's old. It's brown with 4 vu's in the right hand top corner. The channel strips are marked 2001 and the maste section is marked 2002, if that helps.

 

David, I like the thinking on a variable assign desk, but no the balance between guitars and vocals dosn't change from begining to end. And as I would never want to be in a position where anything less than a power cut would stop a show, I would never use any gear that combined things.

It would be nice to lug less stuff round, but with the guitar rack independant of the mix it would still sound the same if the mixer died and I went guitar and vocal into each channel of an amp. (which I've done before in rooms so small the monitor amp has become foh and there isn't even room for a mixer and outboard.

 

Now, can I just hide my old mixers and go get a nice shiny new gl2400 ;)

baz

[i_hate_fisicks]

GL2400s are quite big. I wouldn't like to be carrying one of those around by myself. Wouldn't the mixwizard with the groups (14:4:2 is it?) do the job?

[eviljohn2]

As much as buying shiny new bits of kit is always good, I'd definitely recommend at least trying to run your monitors from the auxes. It's always been fairly standard for me due to the extra layers of flexibility which are inherent. ;)

[The Boogie Man]

The mix wizard has been muted ( no pun intended ) see the earlier posts, and is still a contender.

 

Evil, don't worry now that the aux's route has been discussed it will be fully tried and tested before ever being discounted, but shiny new stuff is, well, shiny and new. which is justification enough in my book any day of the week. ;)

 

Extra layers of flexability ? I'm curious.

[dbuckley]

Barry - just how many inputs do you actually need...?

[The Boogie Man]

Hi David, there are 12 XLR inputs being used during a show, occasionly there are extra mics for the crowd when recording.

[The Boogie Man]

In the end I picked up a splitter ( 1 pair in 4 pair out ) for after the desk. so the final finished sound is the same as it hits the monitor rack and the foh rack. I'd still like a pair of faders for both signals, but by having the mon amp to my side I've got the attenuators close and it's no more fiddly than using the aux masters. I gave a day to experimenting with the aux's, but it just never sounded the same as the full stereo signal. I can see the need for using them when you've got more than one performer, but as I'm on my own ( I wonder why ) there's no need for a different onstage signal. When I do get a new mixer later in the year it will most likely be an a+h wizard or gl2400. I'll have a good look at both next time I'm over the pond.

cheers all.

[Arran]

I vaguely remember the 200 series, they pre-dated 200Bs and were known for their less than flexible routing. Is it not possible to do what you want to achieve by using Grp 1+2 for FOH, Grp 3+4 for mons and not using L+R at all?Forget that, I've just seen the post that says it's not possible to route to 1+2 and 3+4. Sorry.

[Ben Langfeld]

Barry,

 

What is it that worries you about going digital? You get all your dynamics and effects in the desk, all settings are recordable and you save loads of space - no more effects racks.

 

Just wondering what it is putting you off digital...

[The Boogie Man]

Hi Ben, as I said in an earlier post, It's the idea of everything in one box. It goes down, it all goes down. I have my old desk always in the van as a spare, so if the desk went down a quick repatch and the show goes on.

I'd only use an all in one desk if I had two of them.

 

I know it's a bit bit sad, but my biggest thing with shows is never having to stop one unless the whole main power in the venue stops ( even then I've done an acoustis show once when the power failed )

 

I use a system of double programing on all my gear. the two di guitar racks have the patches for both slide and standard guitar in both of them. So either of them can provide the sounds for both guitars.

The effect rack has 4 matching digitec quads which are set to run one whole effect each, but each one has patches in it that have two half effects in it. So if one went down the next is switched to a patch with the missing effect in it.

 

Even the foh stacks are made up of individual amps and driver units producing a full range sound. If one pops its clogs, no worries.

 

I'ts all very anal I know. Now if I could just ind a spare me :)

[Arran]

One slightly contrived way to achieve what you want would be to set up your mix on Grp1+2 - sub to L+R and feed FOH from L+R, plug the outputs of Grp1+2 into the FX returns of Grp3+4, don't sub either the Fx returns or the Grps to mix, and feed your mons from Grp 3+4 outputs. This should give you 2 identical mixes off separate faders (3+4, L+R) that don't interact. The factory default for this desk is for the Fx returns to appear on the Grp outputs. But it's an awful desk - I'd get shut.