Stewart Newlands Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 While replacing the rings will be an improvement it does not provide a proper assessment of the rig. You may not need to replace the irons (clamps) as the rings can be cut off and replaced. The venue should calculate the load on the points and the weight of the rig and everything flown from it, then the venue will know what can be added to it and where on the rig not to add weight. See this thread http://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=24938 and read more in the rigging section. The whole thing should have a real management document, risk assessments and method statements, I take it that the venue employs more than five staff members (managers, bar staff cleaners etc) so a written risk assessment is a legal requirement. If you change to shackles YOU could be held responsible if a point fails etc. Get some proper advice, don't just guess that changing a few things will fix it. If the venue is in Edinburgh these people may be worth talking to:http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/internet/busin...licensing_board http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/CEC/Property_a...ldingintro.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamtastic3 Posted February 16, 2008 Author Share Posted February 16, 2008 Hey guys, just a quick round-up. Thanks for all the advice again. Plans have slightly changed and instead of adding heavier rated shackles to the existing hanging clamps, 1 tonne slings are now going to be used at the rigging points: http://www.screwfix.com/prods/51988/Hand-T...ling-1-Tonne-3m This was suggested by someone over the phone from one of the big industry companies and it's something we hadn't thought about. Also, upon investigation, I did find documents relating to the rigging points being tested. The work was carried out by 'Test & Inspection Services', all signed and approved.The shackles have been rated at 1.5 tonne SWL with a 3 tonne test load applied. The 'Camlock beam clamps' have been rated at 3 tonne SWL with a 6 tonne test load applied.The truss, mostly Trilite has a rating of 200kg SWL with a 250kg test load applied. So, yeah this is good news. The slings have their own certificates as well and will be in place on Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goran Mitic Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Plans have slightly changed and instead of adding heavier rated shackles to the existing hanging clamps, 1 tonne slings are now going to be used at the rigging points: http://www.screwfix.com/prods/51988/Hand-T...ling-1-Tonne-3m For permanent installations it is wise (imho) to go for fire proof. (Heavy metal rules) So no slings, but metal... Edit:misspellingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beamwalker Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 While I can see your point for fire, unless the fire is going to touch the spanset (sling) metal is worse as unless you have spent a lot of money on your steels the ferrules on your steels are aluminium and will fail at a lower temperature than a spanset (sling) will melt. Steel ferrules will last longer. However I must say if the event is on fire hot enough to melt spansets or make aluminium ferrules fail the occupants of the building would already be dead. The only time to be concerned about spansets burning is when you have a fixture under or next to the spanset, so avoid this by moving your fixture, so if the fixture burns it doesnt burn the spanset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ike Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 EN13411-3 ferrules are good to 100C on fiber cored ropes and 150C on steel while slings can be good to anything from 85C to 180C or more. While Spanset™ polyester roundslings are good to 180 I have no idea about the slings linked to. As you hint at they're also terrible when it comes to localised heating. Out of curiosity why are you going for belt slings (webbing) over roundslings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamtastic3 Posted February 18, 2008 Author Share Posted February 18, 2008 Out of curiosity why are you going for belt slings (webbing) over roundslings? It was suggested by the company, possibly because they were thinking belt slings all along and that it would cause less damage as such to the truss. It was the suggested best option which the boss went for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesy Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 I did find documents relating to the rigging points being tested. The work was carried out by 'Test & Inspection Services', all signed and approved.The shackles have been rated at 1.5 tonne SWL with a 3 tonne test load applied. The 'Camlock beam clamps' have been rated at 3 tonne SWL with a 6 tonne test load applied.The truss, mostly Trilite has a rating of 200kg SWL with a 250kg test load applied. It sounds like you are making some real progress here however I would be very dubious about load testing at double the rated SWL. This implies that the components have been seriously over-loaded which in my book is not a good thing. As you may be aware there is a safety factor for this lifting equipment which determines the SWL from the weight required to cause the component to fail but it may not as high as you think. For some "Theatrical" rigging equipment it may be as high as 8 or even 10 but for "Non-Theatrical" stock it may be significantly less, Normally a load test would consist of approximately 25% overload at most, eg a component rated at 1 Tonne SWL is tested to 1.25 Tonnes but I know of testing companies and suppliers that advise against it completely. As with all these things, it is best to get the testing information from the manufacturer, if it is available. Also, how was the truss tested, if the company responsible for the testing were not used to theatrical equipment you need to be very careful, thin wall aluminum like trilite can easily be damaged. Was it taken down and inspected or were test loads applied to it whilst hanging? I do not wish to alarm you in any way but you may wish to seek advice from the manufacturers of your equipment, which is always best. Good luck, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Sorry to contradict, but if proof loading is required, proof loading of lifting accessories is usually made at 2 x SWL, manual lifting equipment 1.5 x SWL and 1.25 x SWL for powered lifting equipment. Not all ferrules used will comply with EN13411, it ain't law. Flat webbing may be better for the truss, it's very thin walled tube. The flat webbing will spread the load over a greater area. Proof loading trusses may not be wise. Provided you follow the manufacturer's instructions and the truss is in good condition it should not be necessary to overload it for the purposes of a 'test' which may simply weaken it. Ask Optikinetics about both these matters. I would suggest getting an expert opinion on this installation ASAP to avoid speculation, far too big a subject for informal discussion to resolve here.The employer is responsible, what does the employer intend to do to rectify the situation you have reported to him/her?Your insurance company and licensing authority may also have a view.There's little point having fantastic hanging rings if the truss is overloaded or the supporting structure is inadequate. PM me if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/Jamez3uk/DSC00282.jpg On a minor, but related note... Is it just my aged eyesight, but can anyone else see the apparently invisible safety bond on that over-slung par can (which really shouldn't be hung with a standard clamp anyway...)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJones Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 On another note, is that ratchet strap taking the full weight of them speakers? or is it simply being used to angle them? Ratchet straps ARE NOT lifting equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamtastic3 Posted March 1, 2008 Author Share Posted March 1, 2008 On another note, is that ratchet strap taking the full weight of them speakers? or is it simply being used to angle them? Ratchet straps ARE NOT lifting equipment. Just to angle. The speakers have rated wire bonds on the 'tracks' on top of each speaker. You need to have one small wire bond and one larger bond to get the angle for each speaker but our wires are all the same length (so the straps pull back the speakers to some kinda of rough dispersion angle) http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/Jamez3uk/DSC00282.jpg On a minor, but related note... Is it just my aged eyesight, but can anyone else see the apparently invisible safety bond on that over-slung par can (which really shouldn't be hung with a standard clamp anyway...)? Ha, yes Ynot there is definetely a chain on that par. I can see it, you might not, but each chain is cabled tied to the pars so they don't go walkies. The cable tie is on the left bend on the yoke and the chain goes from there over to the right of the orange strap. And as I explained before, there is no money for clamps for these pars. I've seen many a place that have had profiles, parcans and even floods all at different hanging angles with standard hook clamps. Oh sometimes I don't know why I bother... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenalien Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Nexo do supply flying kits for the PS-15 speakers, but you'd need to turn them through 90° and also turn the horns to suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timjbarker Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Your rigging kit may be tested but is it current? Also, you don't mention any testing of the actual rigging point.......Doesn't matter what you rigging is rated at if he point won't take it..... Glad to see you're paying attention tho! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_cahonjes Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Not really to do with the rigging or anything of that sort just curious if my guess is right... (New) Bongo Club? (Old Moray House building) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamtastic3 Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 Not really to do with the rigging or anything of that sort just curious if my guess is right... (New) Bongo Club? (Old Moray House building) Hehe, Correct. Oh how did you know.....!? Just to tell the other guys since this thread keeps getting brought up...The rig has been 'dealt' with as such; rated slings have been used at each point, yet the rig is still on these hanging clamps unfortunatly. Getting the clamps or rings was a bigger job than we thought and involved alot of work in the rig as there are certain points that cannot be changed (one truss piece end goes into the wall with a wall support).It means that the slings are now acting as very taught 'safeties' and if a ring does snap, the rig will fall about an inch until the sling is taught holding the weight.I don't particularly like the idea but it's one that is now in use. I'm not the boss.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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