Syncing Lighting and Music

[Paul J Need]

If the music is live - I would advise not to go down the sync route.

If recorded musix is being used I can think of nothing better than a Vista as you can copy the recorded track in to the desk and spend as long as you like, weeks before if available, getting all the cues, timing and moves as you like it. If you leave this process to the last minutes ( 3-4-5 days before) you'll never finish.

 

If you are sticking with the Fatfrog - use the GO button, and program your chases, series of follow cuese as required - but not the syne idea or you'll need 2-3 weeks to plot.

 

Good luck with the production

[dbuckley]

Triggering from MIDI coming out your lighting desk; certainly PCStage can play back your tracks from any sort of MIDI trigger. Other products that are well regarded (eg SCS, SFX, see the FAQ really) MAY also work depending on what MIDI messages your desk can produce from the GO button. Or they may not.

 

However, be warned that many otherwise well regarded lighting desks have terrible or (or indeed entirely missing) MIDI implementations. If you can get the desk to produce MIDI Show Control (MSC) 'GO' messages as it works its way through the theatre stack then thats probably the way to do it, as many sound playback packages can accept MSC messages. It also has the advantage that each theatre stack entry has a unique MSC cue number transmitted with the 'GO', so as you are jumping around in rehearsals the right track will play when you hit the go button.

[Jivemaster]

http://dj-online.co.uk/acatalog/PC_to_DMX_Interfaces.html

 

Look at the free software that comes with the Aurora/Afterglow dongles. One of them lets you sync DMX to MP3 and output both from a lappy.

 

This way you could have a backing track recorded and add the Lx cues and their DMX code all in one place. Play the song and the DMX comes out too.

[paulears]

We understand what you want to do, but as somebody has to balance the audio levels anyway, why not just let them press play?

 

My own view is that you're trying to be far too complicated for the end result. Sure - you can do exactly what you want, and you have some budget to do it - BUT why blow your budget on something that isn't 100% necessary. Also, realistically, you may also be setting yourself up for a real disaster. Your entire LX and sound revolve around fairly complex technology, just waiting to go wrong. Some kit will be hired in so yo won't be n a position to really understand it - and FIX it. As somebody else said - rehearsal time will be short, because nobody will understand what you're doing,and worse case is you get run over by a bus, and the show gets canceled because nobody knows how to work it!

 

The old KISS advice seems to apply here. Automation in lighting, sound or stage terms means extended rehearsal time, and solid repeatable performers. Imagine hitting the button, and the lights start and the music begins, only to discover the cast don't come on. How easy is it to stop and go back. Re-cueing a CD or MD is a piece of cake compared to some show control systems that need you to start typing frantically on TWO separate control desks. Too complicated for the end result. I'd spend the money on some lights or sound - not control systems. If on the other hand the idea is to play with nice kit, and push your boundaries into unexplored territory, then go ahead.

[Jonny DMX]

I am by no means recommending this, however I know that it is possible to run Winamp through an Avolites Diamond 4. Now I know this is no where near within your price range however It may be worth exploring whether the same function is available on some of the new smaller desks such as the Tiger. It is also possible to run video through your desk using Arkaos on your laptop. This is a really crude way of achieving this "single button" for all cues, however with loads of programming and loads of time it could work. I would definitely recommend keeping the systems separate and where possible introduce a second board op if you think you are going to struggle with all of the cues.

 

I do encourage you for trying to do something new and it is great to read about someone that is enthusiastic, just try not to be too ambitious at this point. There is technology out there that can do this but there is a cost associated for a reason. I don't think there is much anyone here can say to deter you from doing this as I think you have your heart set on doing it this way. As a student it is important that you make mistakes and learn from them. The advice here is clear and is up to you whether or not to listen to people who have already made those mistakes, I know I made lots of mistakes at your age.

 

Like Paul said above, I think the best desk for this particular show would be the Vista as the timeline will give you the best flexibility when the rest of the cast are not around, also the GUI is similar to Photoshop and if you have not had much experience programming lighting desks before this may work for you.

 

Good luck

[skier]

Just a thought, might be of some use...If you used a Hog II desk it has a learn timing feature.

 

Make all your cues for your music number, then press "learn timing", play your track, hit your cues. The desk will remember the times you hit the cues and play them back exactly the same provided you hit the first go at the same point you did when you learn't the timing.

 

Hope that makes sence and I got the right end of the stick!

 

S

[chrishandcock]

Tha main issue with midi triggering from a frog, is that it does not have a midi port on it.

[paulears]

Reality Check!

 

School musical, and we're talking Hogs and Vistas??? We have £800 for lighting - well, about half that's going to get you a Vista for a week, and the remainder doesn't get huge amount of things to hang on the other end. Not sure what the venue is - but if it's in school, rather than at a local pro venue, then the other aspects - power supply, scenery, staging, costume etc will also be scaled down.

 

Surely we're looking at totally the wrong level here? It's a school, and they're using tracks, so it isn't a major revenue generating show.

[smalljoshua]

Its in school with 2x 125a 3ph Supplies avaliable although I will be using the 36 ways of chilli that the school has instead of hiring dimmers.

 

Stage is 3.6m (12') x 11m (36').

 

I am bringing in my 8 parcans and 2 RoboScan 218s. That is on top of 6 profiles 12 frenels 6 par cans and 12 floods in the rig.

 

Scenery will be projected and costume is being made in house by A level Textiles students.

 

Not your average school show.

 

Thinking about it I am just going to program all of the different looks in the cue stack and subs then do a mix of busking and memory playback.

 

Josh

[paulears]

Actually that's pretty typical, Josh. I've seen dozens of these kind of shows, and your decision to go with non-sync is a sensible solution. Plenty f schools have been trying to use projected scenery, and have found some real snags. Spill is a big problem, and lighting angles are very troublesome. Front of house light wipes out the projection. Even if you have access to a really big, bright projector, even a few low angle sources out front make a mes of it. Foods are grim too - far too much spill. Plenty of overhead works ok, but watch the floor - if it's reflective, what goes down, bounces straight up onto the screen. If you are going to project your scenery what are you projecting onto? Screens are good - but a cyc isn't too good at bright images. 12 feet stage depth isn't a lot. where will the projector be? Have you drawn it out onto a plan to show where the actors can't be?

 

Projection can be really good - but does have a few real drawbacks.

[smalljoshua]

my school is lucky in having access to one of Epson's bright install projectors it is either 9,000 or 12,000 lumens IIRC it will be front of house at the very back of the auditorium. It will be projecting onto a front projection (5m 16' ish Square) screen and the projector throw is 36' so no problems there

 

The floor will be matte black so no problem with reflections but the floods are only for overhead and audience lighting, 6 overhead and the rest for audience.

 

Thanks

 

Josh

[paulears]

so the cast will make huge shadows on the surface? Also, you'll have the scenery projected onto them. projection from the rear of the auditorium creates horrible problems.

[smalljoshua]

I should have also added that the height of the room allows the bottom of the screen to clear the 6'3" lead man.

 

Josh