Light in the eyes of musicians

[J Pearce]

The method I use if I'm lighting a music event with a conductor is as follows:

 

Work out where the conductor will stand

Define the furthest points of the orchestra

Draw (or imagine) a line from each furthest point through the conductor going onwards.

 

You should now have a triangle or similar coming from the conductor to FOH. Put no light whatsoever in this triangle or the musos will moan. Yes I know that's all of your FOH positions...

 

Steep sidelight, toplight, very steep frontlight, and lots and lots of backlight (in an arc round the rear of the orchestra) is the usual solution.

[andy_s]

... what does it matter what they look like?

 

In my experience the audience appreciate being able to see the musicians and would rather not sit in the dark, if they have to be lit anyway it may as well be good, and it obviously has be done in such a way so as not to irritate.

 

Genus

I agree with the general point you are making, but what is "good"? Talk to some of the people posting here and it will mean lots of moving lights and haze so you can see the beams. For me in a theatrical context, "good" lighting usually means being able to see what the director, set designer and lighting designer want me to see or not see, in a way that interests or excites me aesthetically, emotionally, or what you will. (a bit of a sweeping statement which needs much expansion to really make sense, I realise). For a classical musician "Good" will mean something very different - he ability to see his/her music, which in most concert halls means bright open white, toplight, no modelling, no "facelight". Lets face it, this doesn't need "designing"except in the sense of ensuring sufficient units for proper coverage, a technician can easily do this, no artistic input required. The audience will still be able to see the musicians....just not the whites of their eyes....visiblity will certainly help audibility, but lighting in this instance has to serve the needs of the event and the performers, not the lighting designer.

 

a possible exception to this might be for a soloist, where perhaps facial expression may be interesting to see, but even then, they well find it hard to read music with the image of stage lights burnt onto their retina. So as you say, it needs handling very carefully.

 

the reason the audiences don't like to sit in the dark, in my experience (2 yrs in a 2000 seat classical music concert hall) is because they want to read the programme notes while the music is being played. In my old venue, this meant about 30K of PAR64 downlight mounted in the acoustic canpopy above the platform (not "stage"), with levels balanced a bit to account for the difference in throw distance over the rear-platform risers.

 

J Pearce's geometrical approach is interesting, though I'd be careful with the angle of the backlight - if it hits the sheetmusic at the wrong angle, it might bounce straight back into the musician's eyes....

 

And I know musicians can be the moaniest people, but they are trying to read thousands of little black dots, all of which look quite similar, very quickly, so perhaps we should cut them a bit of slack and help them do their job instead of whinging about the fact that the lighting doesn't look pretty.

[J Pearce]

Indeed Andy, the angle of the backlight does have to be carefully selected to avoid bounce from music.

 

My geometric approach is something I came up with as a generic rule, coming from the viewpoint of me as an orchestral musician.

 

Not being able to see the conductor for glare spells for a shabby performance.

[Genus]

<snip>

 

And I know musicians can be the moaniest people, but they are trying to read thousands of little black dots, all of which look quite similar, very quickly, so perhaps we should cut them a bit of slack and help them do their job instead of whinging about the fact that the lighting doesn't look pretty.

 

 

I agree entirely with your point, and I apologise for using the word 'good', I appreciate that it doesn't really mean anything.

 

I thought you were essentially advocating musicians should play in house/working light because it 'doesn't matter'. Obviously I was mistaken, I apologise again.

 

Musicians, like all other performers in our industry, have a job to do that should never be considered 'easier' than ours. I think that we should be doing what is reasonably practicable to make their lives easier. In this case it's obvious that we shouldn't be shining huge amount of light into their eyes. However I've worked on music shows where the MD wanted any lights on to be so dim such that they would cause the audience to suffer eye-stain watching the show. It's a case of balance, as is everything else we do.

 

Genus

[Andrew C]

My particular bete-noir played one of the stand-up cello like basses, in a coule of pro orchestras. It was either to dim or too hot, whatever we did for him. Bare in mind that the cans lighting his area of the platform were something like 20m up. Several years on, I've got to know a fiddle player from the same orchestras... He bitched at every venue no matter what the provision for lighting DSL was. :)

[andy_s]

<snip>

 

And I know musicians can be the moaniest people, but they are trying to read thousands of little black dots, all of which look quite similar, very quickly, so perhaps we should cut them a bit of slack and help them do their job instead of whinging about the fact that the lighting doesn't look pretty.

 

 

I agree entirely with your point, and I apologise for using the word 'good', I appreciate that it doesn't really mean anything.

 

I thought you were essentially advocating musicians should play in house/working light because it 'doesn't matter'. Obviously I was mistaken, I apologise again.

 

Musicians, like all other performers in our industry, have a job to do that should never be considered 'easier' than ours. I think that we should be doing what is reasonably practicable to make their lives easier. In this case it's obvious that we shouldn't be shining huge amount of light into their eyes. However I've worked on music shows where the MD wanted any lights on to be so dim such that they would cause the audience to suffer eye-stain watching the show. It's a case of balance, as is everything else we do.

 

Genus

don't worry - I haven't taken offence - we're just having a healthy debate! and you clearly weren't "whinging" but taking a pretty balanced viewpoint. I didn't mean to rant at you personally!

 

one of the classical orchestras which played at the venue I mentioned wanted no light on the stage, as the whole performance was lit by candles. Very atmospheric, and clearly a gimmick, as they dressed up in slightly musty baroque costumes to play a bit of vivaldi. so not all classical musicians are "purists" (for want of a better word...)

 

And then there will be people in every walk of life just like Andrew's pet Bass Player.

[nateflips]

all ow top light and a key light on the conductor sounds like my usual routine when lighting an orchestra..

 

nath

[Johnno]

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

If I hang lights on the first stage lighting bar they should be approximately overhead to most of the musos, but is there a limit on how vertically the lanterns can be hung? The most likely candidates will be Patt 23s.

 

The comment that the audience are there to listen not to watch probably doesn't apply in a school where the audience will obviously consist entirely of relatives of the band, there to see 'our Johnny' blowing his own trumpet.

[Ynot]

If I hang lights on the first stage lighting bar they should be approximately overhead to most of the musos, but is there a limit on how vertically the lanterns can be hung? The most likely candidates will be Patt 23s.

As with any lantern with an upright lamp, you're best avoiding anything past 90 degrees from the 'normal' operating angle - possibly even avoiding straight down. Most lamps do not like being hung with the base anywhere near the top - heat rising etc weakens the join to the glass envelope and reduces lamp life considerably.

[andy_s]

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

If I hang lights on the first stage lighting bar they should be approximately overhead to most of the musos, but is there a limit on how vertically the lanterns can be hung? The most likely candidates will be Patt 23s.

 

The comment that the audience are there to listen not to watch probably doesn't apply in a school where the audience will obviously consist entirely of relatives of the band, there to see 'our Johnny' blowing his own trumpet.

 

I think you'll find a properly distributed top light cover will render little johnny perfectly visible, although perhaps not very "excitingly" (another highly subjective term, just like "good") lit. it's the "exciting" bit that I personally think is usually unnecessary for classical music, not the "visibility" bit.

 

I think "approximately overhead" would be fine, though if all you've got is patt 23s, you might need a few to get an even cover.

[gherriott]

Just my quick 2 pence worth....

 

Having played in the orchestras of shows and lit shows with orchestras there are a few things I have picked up; most musicians will whinge just because they think they can/think it is normal to do so. A simple trick about light intensity is to start off with your lanterns brighter than you want them to be, then when they complain you can reduce the intensity to the level you originally intended as their brains will think the light is fine relative to what the level was previously. Next is if there is a harpist in the orchestra, stay away from deep red or blue washes as their octave strings are these colours! As everyone else has mentioned, steep top light is the way forward, at the end of the day all they want is to be able to see their music. Finally if there are still problems, point the musicians in the direction of 'Classical Spectacular' and point out that if the Royal Phillamonic can deal with it, then so can they!

 

As long as you are polite and at least look as if your are doing everything in your power to accommodate the needs of the MD and his orchestra then you will find a solution.

 

Good luck with it!

[Dmx512]

Music stands with an integral light help enormously as any changes in colour and intensity is minimised on the music itself and yes I agree just give a token dim when you get a complaint cos when the shows on you can do what you like!! <_<

[BenHowitt]

The comment that the audience are there to listen not to watch probably doesn't apply in a school where the audience will obviously consist entirely of relatives of the band, there to see 'our Johnny' blowing his own trumpet.

 

Agreed. In that kind of case, the idea would probably be to choke/blind the musicians, in the hope that it would sound better (before I get abuse for such a generalist comment, I speak as a musician, and it provides a rather wonderful test of how well you know the music).