PFL

[Rob_Beech]

I agree that we can often mix on groups and VCA's. However, I tend to set gain structure in such a way that the fader levels are roughly level, generally between -10 and -5 dB dependant on show and how much easy headroom I'm likely to need.

If I don't have groups or VCA's then its vital that I set the gain structure correctly, so I can move all the faders that I would normally group together down equally without issue. If I've got faders all over the place, keeping the change linear is damn near impossible, when it really doesn't have to be.

 

As for groups, or more so VCA's, I tend to group Kick drum and bass guitar together on a group, and the rest of the kit on another. It allows me to increase the LF energy more effectively all together. But that's slowly moving OT.

[johndenim]

Thanks for the first tip Rob, the sound tonight was better than ever after I set up the mixer on your advice.

 

I agree on the group as regards the kick drum and bass guitar.

The two work together as we know and having a 'one fader control' makes the whole LF easy.

 

John Denim.

 

ps. any advice on recording level from page one?

[nb705]

Thanks for the first tip Rob, the sound tonight was better than ever after I set up the mixer on your advice.

 

I agree on the group as regards the kick drum and bass guitar.

The two work together as we know and having a 'one fader control' makes the whole LF easy.

 

John Denim.

 

ps. any advice on recording level from page one?

 

 

FS means Full Scale, basically it means how many bits you've got left in your ADCs (not entirely accurate with a lot of kit, such as Yamaha Mixers, but useful to keep in mind). 0dBFS means you're out of bits and are undergoing digital clipping (which sounds horrific). Depending on the exact piece of equipment you're using, a good level is between -18 and -12 dBFS, which gives you a bit of headroom for transients and a decent resolution for the quiet parts.

[Bobbsy]

To expand a bit: the "FS" in 0dB(FS) does indeed mean "full scale" and it does indeed represent the maximum number of bits a digital system can use. This, in turn, represents the highest audio level without clipping the system can handle.

 

Why is this important in a thread about setting system gain? Well, if you're using a digital mixer or audio editing software to prepare your backing tracks, you should be aware that a lot of digital gear has meters calibrated so the 0dB(FS) point is at the top of the scale. This means that if you're levels are hitting this point (or just below) you've just used up all your headroom.

 

Compare this with an analogue system where the zero level on metering is equivalent to +4dBu which is about .775 volts. However, any decent system will have something like 18dB of headroom above this before you hit ANALOGUE clipping. What this means is, if you make the 0dB(FS) level on your computer equal 0dBu on your analogue meters, you will never go above the zero level.

 

Technically, you should be able set a 0dB(FS) signal from your computer at +18 on an analogue scale and have things line up. Alternately, a calibration tone at -18dB(FS) on your computer should be able to be set at 0 on your analogue system and, again, have things line up. However, the X factor in this is the sort of "loudness wars" people producing CDs tend to get into. If you look at the waveform of most modern CDs you'll see that, in an effort to make them "sound loud" they're compressed and limited to within an inch of their lives and EVERYTHING sits at 0db(FS).

 

Of course, all the above is talking about professional gear with balanced inputs and outputs. The same applies to domestic hifi stuff but, as discussed previously, the standard level for that is about 12 dB lower in analogue.

 

So, what does this mean for you when preparing and using your backing tracks? Well, hopefully an understanding of the two scales will help you setting levels when preparing your tracks then dubbing them to MD (which, though digital probably has an analogue scale on its metering). Second, as you can see, with most backing tracks you can't just use the numbers to set the channel gain of your CD--basically you have to pick a typical track and set things up so faders at "zero" gives you roughly the level you want for performance. (And, if you knew how much is galls somebody with an engineering bias to have to say this......curse you mastering engineers and record companies!).

 

Bob