Chubbs the Techie Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 This may seem like a really stupid question, but it's a problem I've never had before. At any school venue, and at any professional venue, that I've ever mixed FOH at, there's been nothing but air between the FOH system and me and my mixing desk. Our lovely refurbished 'theatre' at school now has a tech box. However, this introduces a big double glazed glass panel inbetween me and the FOH system. We're getting monitors installed in there for general hearing, but I don't understand how I'm supposed to balance 12 radio mics against a live (unmiced) orchestra in a musical if I can't actually hear what the audience is hearing? Am I being stupid/fussy here, or should the director, who wants to lock me in the box, let me be out in the open with the desk? Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 That's what happens when some know-it-all architect, who may have seen pictures of a "recording studio", gets let loose. Or maybe when the same architect marks it down on the plans as "projection box", and the building control people think of celluloid film, fire regs etc. Sigh. Ideally you'd want a window that opens. Maybe you could arrange for the window to "fall out". That's what happened at a brand new school that my kids attend... but only after they had blown 5 rather expensive speakers, cos they couldn't hear how loud it was in the auditorium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 So common in schools and colleges. I was a Gloscat when their new space was being built, and saw the window frame waiting to be fitted - sealed, not opening. I queried it and got shrugs. Not confined to schools though - how many theatres have a proper audio mixing position? Loads have an audio room, but mix from the auditorium, leaving the 'designed' space provided for sound unused. A nice acoustically controlled room is a great place to mix for recording, so the audience noise and the fan noise don't stop you hearing - trouble is, we all know we have to be out in the open to alter the perfect mix to sound good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamchristuffin Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 We also have a 'projection room', but for school productions we move sound downstairs - I can hear what I need to, and the lighting guy gets a chair to put his feet up! Our hall was originally deisgned for just assemblies and conferences, and the projection box is - get this - lined with soundproofing material! Permission to use Hmmmmmm® ? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubbs the Techie Posted October 10, 2008 Author Share Posted October 10, 2008 Few! Before I went on a rampage for change just wanted to check I hadn't missed something. And while on the subject, these genius architects also managed to feed a DMX cable to this room and..... ....that's it. Now the school maintanance staff are having to bodge a multicore in somewhere :-( Cheers, Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mervaka Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 imo, if its at all convenient, just stick it on the floor. after all, you want to be hearing what it sounds like at audience level (but maybe on a riser), not 10-20 feet up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidso Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Had this at a venue I used to work at. It was designed as a projection room for thier cinema setup. When "Patching up" I "Fell" against the window. But yeah this is all too common practice in multi use rooms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Fight kicking and screaming to get a spot in the auditorium. It's never satisfactory mixing in an enclosed control room. That said, on the occasions when I'm forced to do this, I make sure I have some decent studio monitors. Then I set up a good quality condenser mic somewhere towards the rear of the stalls and arrange my monitoring so I can toggle back and forth between the board output and my "monitor mic". Between the two (and with a fair bit of running back and forth to the auditorium during the tech) I can get a reasonable idea of what the mix sounds like to the punters. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killyp Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 I too have to mix through a small(ish) window at school, and it's a complete nightmare. Something can sound fine in the box but sound absolutely awful outside. I agree with Bobbsy - fight kicking and screaming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundiesam Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 I once did a school where there was the "projection Box" scenario but they were told about the problem so they removed the glass and cut a 30cm x 30cm hole in the middle which resulted in us mixing with our heads through a 30cm x 30cm hole interesting performance.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 The closed window is ideal for sending sound on to the audience in another place or time, -Studio for broadcast or recording, where you need to hear the total recorded product ecause that is what the listener will hear, by radio or disc. The open space is needed to mix and balance the live and the amplified sounds in a live environment, you have to be listening to what the customer is paying to hear. Part of the reason for the "control room" build is ignorance by the designers and specifiers, part is for the security of the high value kit. You really do need to present carefully a case for having the control room window openable for live mixing and closeable for security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_the_LD Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Is there no space in the auditorium for you to do your mixing? Then just leave the box to the lighting and video (if applicable) depts.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trunker Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 The Theatre at Coleg Morganwg, Llynypia, South Wales has a Sound Proof Control room. Why? Nope I don't know either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ83 Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 [Rant]Architects working for BSF should be made to work as a school technician for a month (including at least one show) before being issued with a pencil to start the new design![/Rant] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Of course this is far from just a "school problem". I know of a number of civic theatres that have their sound gear in a technical box behind solid windows. We're so used to getting around this by using a number of audience seats for the FOH mix position that we forget there isn't a proper control position designed in. Part of this, of course, is the change in expectations for sound in the last 20 or 30 years. In the "good old days" sound was purely for playing in a few effects off a hissy tape recorder. Nobody ever thought of putting mics on the cast or orchestra. The cast had to project and the MD was responsible for getting the balance of the music right. For a few sound effects you could live inside the sound proof cocoon, doing your crossword and joking with the lighting guy. Now, even Amdram and School plays have 10 or 20 radio mics plus a fully miked orchestra--and in these conditions the need to hear the mix live grows exponentially. Alas, the architects brigade haven't kept up with this. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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