turbosound speakers

[pilgrim]

Hello – my first post.

 

I manage a rehearsal studio in London – and we are adding 5 new studios to the complex in March / April 09.

 

 

I am putting together the PA systems for the rooms and looking at turbosound TXD range for the speakers and Soundcraft for the desks.

 

 

I would welcome any feedback on the following PA set up.

 

 

For the FOH: Soundcraft Spirit8 40 channels with mid/top turbosound TXD252 with TXD218 subs –we will have an 8 way monitor mix run from a Soundcraft monitor2 with TXD15M x 7 for the monitors and TXD151 x 1 for the drum fill.

 

 

Still looking for power amps – but that’s another story.

 

 

pilgrim

[ChazHS]

I'd urge you to reconcider, Turbosound arn't what they used to be. I'd reccomend Martin Audio, Nexo or D&B boxes over Turbo any day of the week.

[Killyp]

What is your budget?

 

And FWIW, I'd go for something like a Martin WT3 (EDIT: actually meant H3T) over the Turbos any day.

 

EDIT: Also forgot, what's the venue like? Any pictures or ideas of layout?

[Charlie Jeal]

I'd urge you to reconcider, Turbosound arn't what they used to be.

 

Chaz,

 

Please expand on this statement; as far as most people and opinions go the latest turbo stuff such as Aspect and Flexarray are amazing products and have taken previous Turbo designs a long long way forward. FWIW TXD line stuff isnt at all representative or the professional touring grade gear its more of a high end music store line of product.

 

Charlie

[Matt Riley]

I think I'd echo the statements made about the TXD range. I use a lot of their stuff in installs, but I think that if it's the kind of install that will involve riders, then putting in older more 'pro range' boxes would work better. Perhaps Dnb max, or Nexo PS15 or Martin W3?

 

In terms of desks, I wouldn't disagree with the monitor 2. It's an ok desk! but unless you already own it, I'd consider using another desk from the Soundcraft range for FOH. I'm not a massive fan of the Spirit 8! Maybe a GB8 (with some spare pads thrown in) or an MH2 or even an allen and heath GL 2800, or ML3000.

[Rob_Beech]

I'd recommend a Sub aswell for the drumfill.

 

I'd have no problems recommending the speakers you choose. They're not the nicest sounding turbo boxes out there but they were never designed with that in mind. They're a good sounding box for the money.

 

The Martin H3T? Why spend so much on a box when you can get W8 cheaper second hand, there is no comparison between the boxes.

 

I'm not a fan of the GB8,

 

All in all it just shows how subjective these things are.

 

 

Rob

[ChazHS]

I'd urge you to reconcider, Turbosound arn't what they used to be.

Please expand on this statement; as far as most people and opinions go the latest turbo stuff such as Aspect and Flexarray are amazing products and have taken previous Turbo designs a long long way forward.

 

From what Ive heard of even the newer turbosound stuff, it seems to be a very clinical sound, lacking depth and 'warmth' which D&B, Nexo and Martin Audio in my humble opinion, do much much better.

[Furryface]

From what Ive heard of even the newer turbosound stuff, it seems to be a very clinical sound, lacking depth and 'warmth' which D&B, Nexo and Martin Audio in my humble opinion, do much much better.

 

Clinical and warmth - could that be noise and lack of noise by any chance? Listen to the "warmth" of older amplifiers and DSPs coming through a more modern speaker with a sensitivity above the noise floor of those products. What most people call "warmth" is actually distortion. And I've never heard a Geo rig sound "warm", "thin" yes, "warm" no.

 

As for the original post I reckon TXD will be more than adequate though if your budget stretches and there is a good business case for it you might want to look at some 2nd hand Floods. And talking of rehearsal studios don't both Terminal and Music Bank have bunches of Turbo - both clinical and unclinical eras. But realistically you need to look at the level of bands you are likely to have coming in and work out what they need then set your budget accordingly. Generally having decent equipment but really nice cafe and other such "leisure" facilities with cool vibe is more important to most musos and bands.

 

FF

[Rob_Beech]

I agree, distortion is a key player in the warmth that we come to know. I for one am not going to say that's a bad thing, but it's something we can get from elsewhere when we need it and don't have to have it when we don't want it.

 

These rooms probably aren't going to be big enough to warrant the design of 760 over the design of the 252. I'm not overly familiar with alot of rehearsal studio's to be honest, but I don't quite understand the need for a FOH PA as there isn't a FOH, or is this for rehearsals of the full works including engineers?

[drsound]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and you can guarantee that you'll get a wide variety of Blue Roomers giving theirs on any subject! Seriously though, as I and many others have said before, you are the ultimate judge of what sounds right and you need to compare a few products in your working environment to find the one that suits you best. Try before you buy or you might be disappointed.

 

I'd urge you to reconcider, Turbosound arn't what they used to be.

Please expand on this statement; as far as most people and opinions go the latest turbo stuff such as Aspect and Flexarray are amazing products and have taken previous Turbo designs a long long way forward.

 

From what Ive heard of even the newer turbosound stuff, it seems to be a very clinical sound, lacking depth and 'warmth' which D&B, Nexo and Martin Audio in my humble opinion, do much much better.

 

Horses for courses. Turbo have a philosophy of engineering the acoustic components in their system to sound the way they want whereas other have gone down the route of building a very loud box then processing the signal like the bejesus the get it to sound right (ok, slightly simplified but largely true).

 

From first hand experience I have been extremely impressed by the lastest Turbo touring ranges - Aspect and Flex Array. I've worked on several jobs with Aspect and we are very seriously considering a purchase of Flex Array. This is after comparing it to similar products from Nexo and d&b on proper live shows and as a replacement for our existing d&b kit.

 

For what it's worth I was at one of the largest hire companies in the country yesterday and their warehouse manager was telling me how they moved away from Turbo a while ago when everyone went line array crazy. He was luke-warm on the subject of Aspect from a practical viewpoint ("a big cluster looks like a bloody shambles" I believe he said) but very very positive on Flex Array as a concept and an implementation of that concept. I'd point out we were standing beside dozens of boxes of V-dosc and d&b Q at the time so it's an opinion I'd respect.

 

I applaud Turbo for avoiding jumping on the bandwagon and taking the time to develop a well though out product that ticks a lot of boxes for a medium-sized company like us.

 

Anyone seen a good review of Nexo Geo T yet? Thought not. I used to be such a Nexo fan in the Alpha days.

[pilgrim]

What is your budget?

 

And FWIW, I'd go for something like a Martin WT3 (EDIT: actually meant H3T) over the Turbos any day.

 

EDIT: Also forgot, what's the venue like? Any pictures or ideas of layout?

 

 

Thanks killyp - in the big room on speakers £10000 + VAT - I have a quote for turbo at £7000 + vat.

 

the desks in the big room - FOH £3000 and monitor desk £3000.

 

the room size is 90sq meters - with a stage area of 50sq meters.

 

all the best

 

pilgrim

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

I think I'd echo the statements made about the TXD range. I use a lot of their stuff in installs, but I think that if it's the kind of install that will involve riders, then putting in older more 'pro range' boxes would work better. Perhaps Dnb max, or Nexo PS15 or Martin W3?

 

In terms of desks, I wouldn't disagree with the monitor 2. It's an ok desk! but unless you already own it, I'd consider using another desk from the Soundcraft range for FOH. I'm not a massive fan of the Spirit 8! Maybe a GB8 (with some spare pads thrown in) or an MH2 or even an allen and heath GL 2800, or ML3000.

 

thanks matt,

 

I was looking at the GB8 - the budget is around £3000 - what would you say are big plus points of the GB8 over the spirit 8.

 

pilgrim

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

I'd recommend a Sub aswell for the drumfill.

 

I'd have no problems recommending the speakers you choose. They're not the nicest sounding turbo boxes out there but they were never designed with that in mind. They're a good sounding box for the money.

 

The Martin H3T? Why spend so much on a box when you can get W8 cheaper second hand, there is no comparison between the boxes.

 

I'm not a fan of the GB8,

 

All in all it just shows how subjective these things are.

 

 

Rob

 

Hi Rob,

 

I did think about a sub on the drum fill - I considered it a bit of a luxury at this point and something I could add later if the bands requested it – Should I reconsider - will it make a big difference – or will it be a nice extra ? – if I did add one to the TXD151 – would you go for 15 or 18.

pilgrim

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

As for the original post I reckon TXD will be more than adequate though if your budget stretches and there is a good business case for it you might want to look at some 2nd hand Floods. And talking of rehearsal studios don't both Terminal and Music Bank have bunches of Turbo - both clinical and unclinical eras. But realistically you need to look at the level of bands you are likely to have coming in and work out what they need then set your budget accordingly. Generally having decent equipment but really nice cafe and other such "leisure" facilities with cool vibe is more important to most musos and bands.

 

FF

 

Thanks FF,

 

For the budget - the TXD turbo looked the best deal - with rehearsal studios you don't need the cutting edge gear - it is more importent to have a good sounding rooms and acoustic treatment – if anybody out there is looking for good acoustic design – check out recording - architecture.

 

spot on with regard to decent equipment and cool vibe -

 

pilgrim

[drsound]

To add something useful instead of my usual rants...

 

I've used a TXD system several times on an install that I used to mix regularly and my impression of it is that it's a nice system for music playback, jazz groups and acoustic acts but it just seems to lack grunt for doing rock 'n' roll. I don't know if the figures bear this out but I also felt it was lacking in sensitivity.

 

The Soundcraft GB8 is fine for what it does. If you can get them for a decent discount they certainly stack up well against Mackie, Behringer and the like but they don't inherit much from the MH3/MH4 except a colour scheme. Just one point to note is that I have personally known of two GB8s that overheated and failed - possibly due to the internal power supply and maybe not enough ventilation.

 

My personal preference for small to medium size desks is Allen and Heath GL but it's something you could debate until the cows come home.

 

Can you look at used gear? You will significantly more bang for your buck, especially with analogue desks. With the world going digital there are some cracking bargains to be had. Bob Kelly has a Yamaha M3000 for under 3 grand and there is one HERE (bit of an old link) for £1660. Pay someone a grand to service it and you'll be up and running with a touring class (in my opinion anyway) monitor desk.

[Matt Riley]

I think David put it quite well. Alongside some other engineers I have met along the way, I just don't like the spirit live 8. Admittedly they've changed a few things on the desk design to the old one, but I've still got prejudices against the desk, and maybe some others still have. It's also not that amazing a desk. The GB8 is a desk which does what it says on the tin. We've got a 32 channel one and it copes well with what we throw at it. Some pads would be nice, but nevermind.

[Boogie]

I think David put it quite well. Alongside some other engineers I have met along the way, I just don't like the spirit live 8. Admittedly they've changed a few things on the desk design to the old one, but I've still got prejudices against the desk, and maybe some others still have. It's also not that amazing a desk. The GB8 is a desk which does what it says on the tin. We've got a 32 channel one and it copes well with what we throw at it. Some pads would be nice, but nevermind.

 

can anyone explaine what a pad does - is part of the desk - or a unit you can buy - if so whats the best

[pilgrim]

I think David put it quite well. Alongside some other engineers I have met along the way, I just don't like the spirit live 8. Admittedly they've changed a few things on the desk design to the old one, but I've still got prejudices against the desk, and maybe some others still have. It's also not that amazing a desk. The GB8 is a desk which does what it says on the tin. We've got a 32 channel one and it copes well with what we throw at it. Some pads would be nice, but nevermind.

 

I would be interested to know what aspects of the live8 you think are not good and why.