speaker/amp question

[psy]

hi on another post about this item

 

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=36536

 

I was told

 

decent 300w rms monitor

Just so you know, its not that good.

 

Josh

 

I had thought it was decent for my purpose as a monitor so it got me thinking about the other gear I bought. too late now to do anything about it but still ive a couple of questions. I bought

2 of these

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=220554

and this amp

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=220537

and 2 of these cables (10m length)

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=224811

 

I didnt pay the prices quoted as I got the amp, 2 speakers and cables on offer for £399 last week.

 

first question: are they crap?

 

second: if so why?

 

third: the place im playing holds 300 packed will they cut it? (bearing in mind the ones I was using previous that I borrowed were only 2x100w rms)

 

and lastly how can you tell from reading the specs on a speaker/amp whether its good or bad? is there a big difference between say one of these speakers and a better known name with the same output rating.

 

cheers

[J Pearce]

Well they'll make a noise and it'll probably be fine for DJ playback and microphone use for audiences of 300ish, but there is far higher fidelity kit out there. All depends on how much you charge, how often you charge and how much you want to invest on sounding good.

 

I have a couple of the older Prosound 12 and horns, and they work ok, but are definitely voiced for disco, with a scooped out mid and lots of boom and tizz. I know of DJs taking small funktion1 or d&b rigs out for 300 capacity venues, but I know of plenty more doing it on prosound or old handbuilt cabs dunked in beer for extra wet cardboard bass.

[psy]

Well they'll make a noise and it'll probably be fine for DJ playback and microphone use for audiences of 300ish, but there is far higher fidelity kit out there. All depends on how much you charge, how often you charge and how much you want to invest on sounding good.

 

I have a couple of the older Prosound 12 and horns, and they work ok, but are definitely voiced for disco, with a scooped out mid and lots of boom and tizz. I know of DJs taking small funktion1 or d&b rigs out for 300 capacity venues, but I know of plenty more doing it on prosound or old handbuilt cabs dunked in beer for extra wet cardboard bass.

 

 

cheers for the response

 

at the minute im playing one night every 2 weeks and its mainly house/trance/psytrance.

 

if all goes well I do intend to upgrade to a system with bins and better speakers but as I dont yet know if it will last the distance (ive only did it 3 times so far) and dont have huge amounts of cash upfront (ive been using my earnings from it to buy bits as I go along) so I wasnt wanting to shell out large sums for gear that I couldnt make pay for itself. its really just to get me gear to get started so I can stop renting/borrowing stuff as id rather be using my wages to finance future gear improvements as opposed to losing it on rentals

[ChazHS]

Being a working club DJ myself playing mostly dance/trance/house, the style of music requires a tight, punchy low end. I'm afraid cabs from Maplin won't cut it if you wish you make the event a 'club' expirience.

 

In terms of budget pro PA (I dont regard Maplin cabs as pro tbh) you're gonna be best off going for some of the low-end JBL cabinets (JRX carpet covered series) powered maybe from Crown XLS or QSC RMX series amplifiers. They will provide for most things and have plenty of low-end punch with pretty crisp highs.

 

If you wish to go up a step or two, I own a Nexo PS-8/LS-400 system (4 x PS-8 and 2 x LS-400) powered from Crown XTi amplifiers and there arn't many indoor venues which it can't cope with to get a 'club' sound with plenty of volume. If money is no object I would highly reccomend getting the same.

[KevinE]

Weren't these Prosound products supplied by Carlsbro?

[Chris Beesley]

If you are on a budget it might be worth having a shop round for the NJD PA Cab's ... they are loaded with Celestion drivers and for budget cabs sound a lot better than others in the market place for similar money.

[Sound In Gloucestershire]

ah the old "everything from maplins is crap" debate

 

whilst the old prosound speaker models were very poor (IMO) the latest trapezoidal prosound 15" are quite good! As KevinE hinted at above, they are actually Rebadged Carlsbro speakers. I used a pair of the Carlsbro versions for over 2 years. They are surprisingly loud and clear, youll need to trim the top end slightly as the Compression driver is a little too powerful. I was using my pair for Discos's and Karaoke nights abou 4 nights a week and no complaints here! You wont get too much bass out of them though, which is fine for disco/karaoke but no good for trance/dance, ive no idea how you were doing this with 100w speakers....They are solidly built with metal handles and corners, the only thing you will need to do is remove the Horn and put some glue around where it joins the compression driver, as they loosen quite easily and fall off!

 

Even though I loved using these cabs, there was only so much a cab like this could do and a room with 300 people playing dance music...no chance

 

The Amp isnt really up to the job and doesnt kick out anything like what it says it does. A local Club had two Peavey PV1500 amps running pairs of Peavey UL15 cabs (500w each 4ohm, perfect match), the resident DJ decided to replace them with two Prosound ones (supposedly also putting 500w into each 500w cab) but the volume difference before clipping was very noticeable!

 

Personally I think your "spend it as I earn it" approach is a false economy, put your money where your mouth is and let it pay you back? If personal budget is still a problem, go for the Warrior W Audio PSR12A's. The price has recently gone up but Discostudio still have stock at £400 for the pair. http://www.discostudio.co.uk/item.php?upn=...p;affid=froogle They have two built in amps, they produce more bass than the 15" Prosound/carlsbros, they are also alot louder, yet also more compact and include free bags in the price. I have 4 of these and I cant say enough good about them. Then get some bass cabs to go with them, theyve just released a matching bass cab, but ive not had a demo of them yet. Priced about £375 each http://www.solotechnic.co.uk/w-audio-wsr-115p-i31542.html Im itching to find a pair for a demo, at 49.5KG they include a free wheel board (which youll need haha)

 

how much are you earning from these nights? 300 Dance music fans should be coughing up a fair few quid?

 

Also sound is a very personal thing, whilst I can give my recommendations, others will give theirs, but you should arrange a demo of all equipment before pruchasing (including side by side comparisons)

[Kevin Ross]

The Amp isnt really up to the job and doesnt kick out anything like what it says it does. A local Club had two Peavey PV1500 amps running pairs of Peavey UL15 cabs (500w each 4ohm, perfect match), the resident DJ decided to replace them with two Prosound ones (supposedly also putting 500w into each 500w cab) but the volume difference before clipping was very noticeable!

I guess that would depend on if the UL15s were in the 8 or 4 ohm flavour. Also the Peavey quote a sensitivity of 98db /w @ 1m and the pro sounds quote 96db which would make a difference.

 

 

 

Anyway I will chip my 2p into the pot by saying that with a good pair of subs you should be fine with these top cabs for the events you are doing. Yes it would be preferable to have some better top cabs with a good 12” in them (see a recent thread about the F15 v F12) but you existing ones will be fine once relieved of having to provide “trace” levels of bass.

 

 

 

In conclusion look out for some good subs and then get another amp/crossover and run the system 2way, Bob’s your mother’s brother

[Bobbsy]

Well, Bob here, but I'm going to speak as a parent rather than an uncle!

 

My now-grown-and-working-in-the-industry son went through the teenage "I want to buy gear" phase and he and his best friend had a collection of Maplin "ProSound" amps and speakers.

 

Soundwise they were mediocre but not disasterous. However, where they fell down greatly was reliability. Even with the relatively light use the gear got doing discos and teenage parties, failures started happening in well under a year. The amps in particular would suffer thermal cut-outs even when not being pushed particularly hard. It fell to me to look at them and try to keep them running and, frankly, looking at the innards the build quality was pretty appalling.

 

Suffice to say that, even though the lads survived their teenage years, the ProSound gear didn't and hit the scrapheap before either celebrated their 20th birthday.

 

Even though the the prices appear to be a bargain, they money would have been much better spent saving up and buying slightly better gear that will last a while.

 

Then again, now that number 1 son actually works in the industry, the last thing he wants it to own gear. His venue has a lot and what they don't have he rents....the last thing he wants is to clutter up his flat with equipment!

 

Bob (an uncle many times over, but not yours!)

[Sound In Gloucestershire]

Kevin Ross, re-read that paragraph again and youll see im talking about swapping the amps! They swapped two PV1500 Amps (500w into 4ohms) for a pair of prosound 1600 (500w into 4 ohms supposedly....)

[Kevin Ross]

Kevin Ross, re-read that paragraph again and youll see im talking about swapping the amps! They swapped two PV1500 Amps (500w into 4ohms) for a pair of prosound 1600 (500w into 4 ohms supposedly....)

 

Ahh I can see it now, damm skim reading, It might be down to the clip light coming on at different levels. Some amps it comes on when actual clipping occurs, some it comes on 3db before as a sort of warning. I guess without hooking up a scope to the output and actually looking to see when the waveform clips its hard to compare like for like

 

p.s. Is that the frog and fiddle in Cheltenhan?

[Shez]

I guess without hooking up a scope to the output and actually looking to see when the waveform clips its hard to compare like for like

 

<Slightly OT> Your ears will tell you it's clipping long before a scope will (careful of your speakers though!). I demo-ed this to someone a little while ago who didn't believe me when I explained that their sine wave generator didn't produce very pure sine waves. It can sound horribly distorted and have a huge amount of harmonics present but still look pretty much like a decent sine wave on a scope. A spectrum analyser is more useful for this but a bit less commonly available.

[lostinvegas]

first question: are they crap?

 

second: if so why?

 

I think it really depends on who your playing to. My house mate is a DJ and he borrows a couple of 12" cabs I re-coned with eminence speakers about 6 years ago. The actual boxes are probably as old as me as I have had them 15 years and got them 2nd hand when I was in my teens. The amp used is only 100watts a side into 4ohms.

 

I use them for a vocal PA for rehearsing with my band. He uses them in function rooms for DJ'ing birthdays etc.... I think they sound fairly terrible, but his punters don't seem to mind and he keeps getting re-booked?? he plays pop/rock/indie etc...

 

The top DJ's and bands will not accept anything less than top quality gear. If it is being used regularly or toured it has to be robust as its being chucked in and out of vans/lorries everyday.

 

If this is a hobby for you and a bit of extra money at the weekend then its probably best to build up what you have as you can afford it. It also sounds like you don't have much experience with PA, so tread cautiously before spending a large amount of money, especially if you don't really know what your buying. I would though say buy quality where you can.

 

If this is a serious career then I certainly agree with Bobbsy, you will save more in the long run investing in gear that will stand the test of time.

 

For now a good set of bass bins would improve what you have, if your on a budget have a look at the studio spares auditorium range 18" bins they are reasonable for the money, but still very much budget items.

 

and lastly how can you tell from reading the specs on a speaker/amp whether its good or bad? is there a big difference between say one of these speakers and a better known name with the same output rating.

 

The spec will give some idea but a lot of buying gear comes down to experience. Certain brands have a reputation for reliability and quality and others don't. As a basic starting point I would say make sure you match your speakers and amps. i.e. if the amp runs at 4ohms make sure the speakers have a resistance of 4ohms. Look at SPL values as well as RMS wattage values. Remember its not all about power or volume its also about the quality of the sound.

 

There are lots of good reputable manufactures like Nexo, Martin, D&B, LAcoustics, Meyer, Funktion1 etc.. but their equipment does not come cheap, but you get what you pay for. Reputable companies like SSE, LMC etc... often sell off 2nd hand and re-conditioned stock its worth checking their websites.

 

I hope this helps you a little.

 

Chris

[psy]

it helps a lot, cheers. and cheers to everybody for the advice, interesting stuff indeed.

as I said before the stuff is already bought so just "getting something different" is not an option for now till I build up some cash again although im pretty sure knowing me it will be sooner rather than later as I hate making do.

 

just wondering, if I wanted to at least buy a decent set of bins to see me through till I can also replace the tops etc. will I need a seperate amp to power them? I would imagine so but just thought id ask

[lostinvegas]

You will need an amp unless you get some active bins like the Mackie SWA1501. Remember you will also need a crossover so you send the correct frequencies to the speakers. DBX do some good loudspeaker controllers and crossovers which will do the job for you so that might be a good place to start looking. I am about to buy one to replace some lab gruppen crossovers I have. http://www.thomann.de/gb/crossovers.html is a good place to start.

 

Chris