Fat Frogs for Obama Inauguration

[mac.calder]

A top programmer should still be able to sit down in front of any board and be able to pull out a good/great show... Sure, most top programmers will know one or two board REALLY well - better than the manufacturers in many cases - but if they agreed to do a charity gig or something of the sort and were thrown in front of the ZXY from a little manufacturer in the back waters of some really small coutnry, chances are they will still throw together a great show... it will just take a lot longer.

[vbm]

...with "top" being defined at working on the biggest & most high profile jobs in any field of entertainment, and therefore (presumably) being paid the most...

Ah but I said 'good' not 'top' and is that a good definition anyway?

 

If I take my car into a garage and the guy says 'I only word on Lotus Elise' am I impressed?

If I call out a plumber and he arrives and says 'Sorry mate, can't help you, I only do Grant boilers' should I think him any good?

Would I consider a chef who only cooks fish to be a 'top' chef?

Is being highly paid a mark of being any good at what you do?

 

In the real world, where very few people will ever regularly work on the high profile shows (whatever they may be), does having a narrow skills range make you 'good'? Are the 'top' people by your definition 'good' by my definition or are they simply good at getting the high-profile work?

 

Brian- Some fair points. But would you take your car to a garage without first checking that they'll fix your Vauxhall Vectra? Being highly paid is by no means a guaranteed mark of being good at what you do. Oasis are undoubtedly a very well paid "top" pop group but that doesn't mean they're not pedestrian, derivative, and unoriginal, although you could argue that (judging by the number of records they sell and bums they put on seats) they're obviously giving people what they want, so who's to say that that isn't being "good" at what they do? In my area of knowledge (rock'n'roll, as opposed to theatre), I don't think many people would argue that people like Dave Hill and Brad Schiller aren't both some of the "top" programmers, and very good indeed at what they do. As I'm said, I'm pretty sure that they'll use only one or two different desks, and if that's a narrow skills range, it hasn't stopped them being very "good".

 

In the real world where you and I live and work, I know plenty of programmers who will only use one type of desk, and who are very good at what they do by any definition- they work all the time, the shows look good and the clients keep coming back. As somebody said further up the thread, the desk is only a tool to do a job.

[Davethsparky]

I dont know why this argument is still happening on this board,

 

The argument is not really about the board itself, more about whether people should condemn a desk when they haven't had enough experience or training on it to make an informed decision about it.

[Bryson]

indeed that does surprise me.

I wonder whether they have similar numbers of flying pig/jands and avo desks, or if they just favour z88

 

P.

 

Christie are a big company, sure. But that doesn't mean that they just do big jobs. They work at every scale. they're more like Stage Electrics than Bandit...although they're not much like either!

 

They have a very strictly limited range of consoles (and everything else - it's actually pretty infuriating..) so they select them very, very carefully. Fat Frogs, MAs (Of all varieties), ETC Express(ion), Jands ESP and Leprecon simple two preset desks...and that's it. There is a rogue Hog in some warehouses, but they phasing them out. They're very committed to their "approved product line" and don't make a decision lightly!

 

Another Christie oddity: If you order a console from them, you get two of the same. 2 MAs, 2 Fat Frogs, 2 Leprecons. A backup with every order. Very, very odd.

[bjkered]

When will these knocking Desks and Mine is Better than you stop on the Blue Room Every time there is a Thread on desks I normally just by pass them again.

 

Desks are a personnel thing in my opion . It is Like learning a Language . Ie I can Speak Fench but not German therefore France is Better than Germany. I dont want to learn German

 

Yes there are features we expect and technical aspects such as the number of DMX interfaces , Artnet we want , need , would like . But we have to balance, Price with Features and Requirements when buying or hiring .

 

Once People Learn a desk they normally try to stick to that and are reluctant to learn a "NEW " Language.

 

Thats It . I wil continue to BY Pass threads about which desk

[Davethsparky]

I personally think we should discuss lighting desks here, but it should be discussions about the important things not just about who has used what or who likes what. I think it's helpful if people can share their experiences of reliability, service, performance, value for money, new bugs, ways to fix them when they go wrong, etc. If someone wants to come here and say that a desk is crap then they should be backing this up with reasons not just making an unhelpful statement about them. It should be "I think this desk is crap because ..." not "this desk is crap!"

[Tom_Robbo26]

My post wasn't initially about completely condemming the Fat Frog desk. Infact I am using one later this week using a show with 4 macs.

I was more interested in the fact that I mainly see Frog consoles used in education rather than larger, higher profile events. For example, I would be most gobsmacked if I saw a Leap Frog running the whole lighting for "Wicked" in the west end.

The fact that they had 11 desks was another point that hit me. No one has really mentioned the use of wireless DMX. Would this have been an alternative? I am still in education and therefore on a learning curve to what can be used for certain applications.

Myself, I would see using 1 desk and a wireless DMX system more cost effective than 11 fat frogs and 11 experienced lighting technicians.

And maybe I have under estimated the fat frog, my past experience with it was using the wheels and getting it to focus on a set spot took ages to get it exactly right, however as many of you have mentioned the fat frog does have pallettes and this is something I am new to on this desk.

If anyone could possibly give me some guidance on what the pallettes can be used for and how to use them on the fat frog I would more than greatly appreciate it :P

Thanks

[steve h]

No one has really mentioned the use of wireless DMX. Would this have been an alternative? I am still in education and therefore on a learning curve to what can be used for certain applications.

Myself, I would see using 1 desk and a wireless DMX system more cost effective than 11 fat frogs and 11 experienced lighting technicians.

 

Im sure there was a good reason they didnt want to go wireless (maybe something to do with all the other wireless in the area, with security tv anything...I dont know) But seeing as it looks liek it was a turn on a focus and leave sort of job then 11 technicians probably werent needed, and the fatfrog seems a nice cost effective way of doing this...especially if you have lots to hand

 

Steve

[slim_mcslim]

I gave up being a lampy a long long time ago, fortunately I only had to use a frog once, and just found it entirely user unfriendly, I find a masterpiece more intuative to program. However everytime I book a lampy I constantly get told not to supply a frog, the one time I did the lighting guy managed about 2 different states in 45mins programming. Since that time I have vowed never to use either him or a fat frog again.

 

This is nothing against Z88 who I think make good products, and I haven't used the full frog range, however I will be relucatant to choose them.

 

Back to my point, was I didn't really see Christie as a SLX style company, I more considered them as a Bandit or Neg Earth type, but Brysons comments put a lot into persepective.

 

I think the discussion of desks on here serves a very valid purpose as there are those who will always like and those who will hate, again personally I am no huge fan of the Pearl, but its all pretty irrelevant to me as I don't have to program or operate desks on a daily basis.

[niclights]

More complex hardware/software just introduce more potential for failure. It's clear that reliability was most important here. This argument works equally for both console choice and why not to use wireless.

 

Sometimes simple is best.

[lightsource]

You need to look at it from the hire company's point of view.

 

If the frog did the job required, and it was part of the company's hire stock, then what's the problem?

 

Did the equipment supplied for the event do the job the hirer required?

 

If the answer to that question is 'yes', then

 

Next question...Did the hire company make an acceptable profit on the job.

 

If the answer is 'yes' then everyone concerned is happy.

 

When you've spent the Millions purchasing the kit, then argue about it, if you haven't, then don't, otherwise this topic is little more than a 'Which lighting desk should I use'

 

If Christie's have over 100 Frogs, then there's good reason. From a financial point of view think of the cost alone, so getting a good return on the investment must be a priority.

 

I would also say (just to rally the troops around the BR Admin staff :P )

 

Its nice to see, UK products used at such a monumental US event

[Graham NZ]

There was a concern about using wireless across the site. There was talk of possible jamming of all wireless including mobile phones but I don't know if this happened.

 

I find it really interesting that a couple of people have slammed our products but then when questioned admit things like they didn't know it had palettes. In a similar way it is always slightly bemusing that posters from the UK seem to put the Fat Frog into a box that says educational whereas the bulk of Fat Frogs sold have been into the markets outside the UK and have been used far more in environments away from the educational one.

 

Best

Graham

[Shez]

I gave up being a lampy a long long time ago, fortunately I only had to use a frog once, and just found it entirely user unfriendly, I find a masterpiece more intuative to program. However everytime I book a lampy I constantly get told not to supply a frog, the one time I did the lighting guy managed about 2 different states in 45mins programming.

 

Very much a case of each to their own then - I never got my head around a masterpiece (not that I tried very hard) but found a fat frog very intuitive. You push the faders up & record the state - hardly rocket science. I've done shows on them with a rig entirely comprised of golden scans (nightclub venue - don't ask) and didn't hit any insurmountable problems. Study the manual first and keep a copy of it to hand.

The pearl was the hardest desk to get my head around but once I understood the programmer concept, it all fell in to place. I'm no expert but can get by. Same with pretty much every other desk I've encountered.

I'm a noise boy at heart though - analogue desks are SO much easier all around :blink: