Simon Lewis Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 We've known it's possibly been on the cards for a long time, and it has made more sense in the last couple of years to hire, rather than buy. Anyone selling you ch69 should have pointed this out. Sorry, but that elicited a seasonal "ho ho ho" from me! A quick search of several suppliers and manufacturers reveals that either there is little or no information about the need for licensing (let alone moving out of channel 69) and despite having sent e-mails to them, one well know online supplier still states, "This series operates in the carrier frequency range 838-870MHz which is deregulated and can be used without a UK licence". Some suppliers provide more accurate information - but are several years out of date. I can only surmise that over the next few years there will be some very annoyed radio mic owners...! Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Licensees were notified today by letter that from 4 January 2010, channel 38 will become available on a shared use basis.What's quite nice is that if you read the release on the JFMG website, Ch38 is being issued as a block of spectrum, rather than specific spot frequencies. Bit more freedom to do my own frequency plan subject to interference on a site or whatever. So, we can use the spectrum from 2010 - any sign of any equipment (other than that from Trantec) that will be able to be used yet? I guess not as manufacturers had nothing concrete up until now. AKG's latest range is being marketed as Ch38 ready Sennheiser and Shure list Ch38 as part of their frequency lists - though it's not entirely clear if that covers the UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 one well know online supplier still states, "This series operates in the carrier frequency range 838-870MHz which is deregulated and can be used without a UK licence".Google is certainly on the ball with this quotation, and has no problem finding it. Where do we buy spares for our studio from again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Google is certainly on the ball with this quotation, and has no problem finding it. Where do we buy spares for our studio from again? What is annoying is that I e-mailed them a long time ago, pointing out the inaccuracy, and they still can't be bothered to change it! One of the church online providers is happily selling the Behringer radio system (channel 63 only). It can't even be used as a stand alone channel 70 device after DSO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modge Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/17/wi...ss_microphones/The register's opinion on yesterday's events. It doesn't contain facts not in the ofcom press release but it does have a certain amount of commentary on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revbobuk Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 What's odd about that report is the last sentence: In the longer term, Ofcom sees the PMSE crowd moving into the white spaces - transmitting on frequencies used for Digital TV in other parts of the country, though in the past the regulator has suggested selling those off too, which implies that this shift to 38 may only be temporary. Fancy doing all this again in a few years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedd Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 In the longer term, Ofcom sees the PMSE crowd moving into the white spaces - transmitting on frequencies used for Digital TV in other parts of the country, though in the past the regulator has suggested selling those off too,I spotted that! What's worrying is that those of us who have been waiting for the whole mess to be sorted out before making a purchase may well spend a considerable chunk of money, only to find we're being moved again in a few years. I wish to register my "no confidence" vote in Ofcom right now! Do people think a new thread on channel 38 compliant kit would be a good idea? There have been a few discussions mixed in these threads, but somewhere where people can post brands, merits and concerns as stuff comes onto the market might be useful. Especially as, with this announcement, people may start buying in January - if I hadn't just bought a house, I would be! I've been needing some new radio mics since, well, ever since this whole fiasco started! So far the AKG DMS700 range looks ok, Sennheiser 2000, 3000 & 5000 range, Trantec S6. Then the obviously ok ones - the 2.4GHz systems from Sabine and others.Does anybody know of any more? The lower end Sennheiser kit (which is unfortunately where I need to be in terms of pricing) won't work. Looks like the higher end users are being taken care of first. How long till we see a Sennheiser G4 I wonder? C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Do people think a new thread on channel 38 compliant kit would be a good idea? I'd welcome the addition of a "what the manufacturer is doing to help" section. Our US cousins seem to have at least one trade in scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shez Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 The lower end Sennheiser kit (which is unfortunately where I need to be in terms of pricing) won't work. Looks like the higher end users are being taken care of first. How long till we see a Sennheiser G4 I wonder?It's been hinted at in another thread that something may appear in the G3 range, so don't write them off just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Channel 38 band edges are at 606-614MHz but the G3s go only cover 823-865MHz - as in the top half of channel 65. Channel 38 is a LONG way away in frequency terms. The lower band versions of the G3 are listed at 566-608MHz - which only covers part of 38 - so channel 38 is a little difficult for the Sennheisers as their spec stands at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyL Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 The lower end Sennheiser kit (which is unfortunately where I need to be in terms of pricing) won't work. Looks like the higher end users are being taken care of first. How long till we see a Sennheiser G4 I wonder?It's been hinted at in another thread that something may appear in the G3 range, so don't write them off just yet.Correct Shez. Yes there will be a 'Channel 38' version of Sennheiser Evolution G3 available long before anyone actually has to move out of channel 69. In the mean time any G3 that is bought in existing ranges will be convertible to the 'new' version once it becomes available (n.b. it will cost money to convert, but a lot less than replacement.) Alternatively anyone who is dealing with a 'fixed site' would be better served to ignore channel 69 and/or channel 38 anyway and get a fixed site licence from JFMG in other parts of the UHF spectrum, i.e. in the White Spaces, more often called Interleaved spectrum. You need to discuss the options as to what is available now and what they reckon will be available post DSO at the location with JFMG BEFORE ordering anything in this case. This has always been a possibility but one sadly ignored by many for reasons of convenience or laziness IMHO. I can elaborate on that last bit, but believe me, you don't really want me to. :) What's odd about that report is the last sentence: In the longer term, Ofcom sees the PMSE crowd moving into the white spaces - transmitting on frequencies used for Digital TV in other parts of the country, though in the past the regulator has suggested selling those off too, which implies that this shift to 38 may only be temporary. Fancy doing all this again in a few years? As I say, use of the White Spaces by radio mics, iem's and even comms (e.g. Telex BTR) is not new. It's been the staple of many touring shows, broadcasters, theatres, etc. for more than 20 years - a lot longer in fact than we have had access to channel 69. So the 'PMSE crowd''are well and truly already in the White Spaces (Americanism), only we usually call it Interleaved Spectrum. The next big problem in fact is the threat to this use by PMSE of the Interleaved Spectrum posed by so called 'Cognitive' or 'White Space' Devices. This is another big subject and deserving of it's own thread.... coming soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I'd welcome the addition of a "what the manufacturer is doing to help" section. Audio Technica have set the ball rolling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleah Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I'd welcome the addition of a "what the manufacturer is doing to help" section. Audio Technica have set the ball rolling... I recently (24/11/09) emailed Trantec sales (mark@trantec.co.uk) with the following: Dear Sir,I am contacting you with regard to the change in radio spectrum by OFCOM, a subject I expect you have talk about rather a lot recently! Approx 3 years ago I purchased a 4.16 'racked & ready' 8 way system for use in school for musicals etc. I was unaware of the proposed sell-off at the time, and no warning was given by retailer or manufacturer - I don't know if you would have been aware also, so maybe we were all taken by surprise!By 2012 the system will still be in near new condition with relatively few hours use. Simply throwing the system away is clearly a simply unacceptable option, especially as they were paid for by fundraising.Obviously we can continue to use four on the license free frequencies, again a fairly unacceptable situation.I would expect a minimum of 10+years use out of a system in our situation. This is a story I am sure you are only too familiar with, if not, soon will be! To the point...Is the 4.16 system upgradeable (i.e. component/PCB replacements or by software) to use the new frequencies?Will you offer a discount for this? I am capable of doing board swaps or light soldering so I'm sure some kind of deal must be possible?If not, will you offer a trade-up to swap out 4 of the individual systems to something that will be a drop in replacement (we have 2 x distros with 1 pair of antenna and would like to stay that way!)? I note with interest you (and most other manufacturers are still selling equipment that (probably) will be illegal to use after 2012 with no kind of up front warning. Are you living in hope that OFCOM may reverse their decision, or maybe you plan some kind of free upgrade?!! I eagerly await your reply. So far they have chosen to ignore me, not even acknowledging receipt of my email. So much for customer support!BTW I purchased the system from CPC who are still selling the same. Maybe Chris would care to comment? :biggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I'm firmly of the opinion that it's not really fair to pin blame and expect compensation in some kind from the people who sell the kit. It's not their fault that the Government change the goalposts. I agree that it's bad news from the purchasers perspective, but people who are still buying analogue TV kit (and who maybe did so in a similar timescale) have the same problem. In many other similar areas, like PMR radio - a license can be granted and then for local needs, swapped to frequencies certain kit cannot cover, with similar implications. You couldn't blame Motorola when your existing kit suddenly becomes obsolete. I'd expect there to be thousands of unlicensed users who are not even aware of the changeover - they'll just carry on until one day a nasty noise comes out - even then, they'll probably just find a few more quiet channels and carry on. Just out of interest, when you buy a rack 'n' ready system, do they initially tell you about licenses, or did you do it for yourself? I'd suspect that as a license holder, you'll be eligible for whatever compensation may happen when it's sorted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I'm firmly of the opinion that it's not really fair to pin blame and expect compensation in some kind from the people who sell the kit. I do not expect this either, neither do I blame the manufacturers. However, I had seen what some US manufacturers were doing (within an admittedly different situation) and had heard that Trantec were offering money off new equipment against S5000 units that cannot be changed to Ch38. I suspect that this may be effectively offering 'trade' discounts to end users. Now AT see fit to offer a discount scheme. Perhaps some are getting worried that if there was to be compensation available, brand loyality might not be as strong as they'd like? Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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