Web site Idea

[Brian]

...Without wanting to knock the ABTT, for the couple of theatres I'm fairly well acquainted with, they either aren't in that list, or the info is at least five years out of date. ...

The info in the ABTT Theatres database is added and kept up to date (or not) by the theatres themselves.

[peternewman]

Thanks - I started having a look through that lot but I can't work out the dependency chain.

TBH there isn't any really, but the code might get confused if fields exist in some places but not others. I guess the discussion first is probably worthwhile anyway.

 

Lighting Control Protocols: sACN, DMX

MIDI Input: Notes, Controllers, MSC

MIDI Output: Notes

A bit of a toss up between neatness and usefulness of the data, but seperate columns for each protocol and the MIDI bits with Y/N answers would mean you could sort by desks that support ArtNet for example.

 

All of Congo's Masters can be Playbacks:

Master Playbacks: 40*

Submaster Faders: 40

 

Hog 2 doesn't (really) have Submasters at all:

Master Playbacks: 10

Submaster Faders: 0

I'm not quite sure I see the difference between the Congo and Hog examples, surely a cuestack with one cue is equivalent to a sub, hence what does a Congo do that a Hog doesn't? Do we not need Master Pages too?

 

I assume you're proposing your fields as a complete replacement for what exists already?

 

The info in the ABTT Theatres database is added and kept up to date (or not) by the theatres themselves.

I did wonder if that was the case Brian, it doesn't surprise me for one I was looking at, but I'm kind of surprised another doesn't appear to be in there at all.

 

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

TBH most people buying Consoles will be willing to do the homework on what is available and get hands on experience of the programming/ operating of the desks. A good demo is far better than just comparisons.

But you need to start somewhere surely David? I'd hope people do their homework, but some threads come up a lot... ;)

[Mr_Jules]

So.......

 

How does any of what's being proposed, (and I'm not knocking it, honest) actually help you decide what desk is the one to go for? As far as I'm concerned the most important part of any desk is the usability factor that no number of stats (or stacks!) is going to answer. We've all encountered consoles that look like something out off the Starship Enterprise but have underlying software/logic that make you want to slit it's throat. It's often pointless asking the forum members because most of them will just suggest those desks/setups that they happen to get along with. There are very few of us who've had plenty of hands on experience of all the main contenders to give a truly unbiased opinion, and even then, I've seen miracles performed on desks that I personally hate as well as ham-fisted use of those that I adore. A lot of small theatres and schools will only be buying from a trusted/local supplier who will do their utmost to get rid of what happens to be taking up the most room in their store or what they can make the greatest profit on. It's a genuinely tough market, especially when working with a tight budget, and you only have to trawl through some of the recent threads to see the differing options, opinions and prejudices available. I'm truly glad that I know what I want and what I like. There should be some way for users and abusers to add more than just blind specs, for all the use it may or may not do.

 

I've got nothing smaller than a 5p. If I put it in can I take out 3p change?

[David Lee]

I think Mr Jules put it better than I could have there.

[peternewman]

I guess just to give you an idea of where to start/what's available/what fits your physical specs and possibly at what kind of price range. After all there's no point looking at a Level 6 to control an arena rig and a Road Hog is probably overkill for 12 ways of dimming. Even more so if you want to narrow down particular features like MIDI and ArtNet. I also appreciate you can't tabulate everything, but when you've got an idea of the potential contenders, you can click each one to find out more, it's foibles, its bugs, where it works well; possibly even user reviews.

 

I guess one way to think of it, similar to the lantern equivalent, is that the infoboxes in the lantern articles hopefully add benefit and a quick summary to the article, so being able to get a sortable table out of it too is just icing on the cake. Even if a few people just use it as a quick reference to work out what size/type of SmartFade they need to hire to work with a particular rig, having already been comfortable with how they operate, then it's probably proved useful.

 

Another possible addition to the infobox, what OLE support if any the desk has.

[david.elsbury]

What about a wiki style, with a table to discuss basic features, and each desk name links to a wiki page with more details about the desk itself such as how many playbacks are shared with submasters, (in the case of a computer based system) which dongles give which outputs, etc etc?

 

http://i43.tinypic.com/2s7cg8p.jpg

[peternewman]

That's what I said David! ;) Or are you proposing simplifying it even further to just a few pieces of information, like your example shows? I assume you've seen the current incarnation here?

[simschr]

I've noticed there are a few discontinued products on there, are we limiting this to current product lines or a mixture?

 

Chris

[peternewman]

I think discontinued ones can stay, after all they are welcome on the wiki in general, but perhaps we should have a flag so you can filter/sort them out.

[Tomo]

Lighting Control Protocols: sACN, DMX

MIDI Input: Notes, Controllers, MSC

MIDI Output: Notes

A bit of a toss up between neatness and usefulness of the data, but seperate columns for each protocol and the MIDI bits with Y/N answers would mean you could sort by desks that support ArtNet for example.

True - sorting is good, extra columns are arguable - there are a *lot* of network protocols, plus all the older protocols like 0-10v, AMX etc.

Although now I think about it, only MIDI, DMX, ArtNet and sACN are 'open' - ShowNet, ETCNet2, MANet etc are proprietary, so perhaps a column for each MIDI plus ArtNet and sACN and then a column for 'other' protocols.

DMX could be considered 'default' and indicated by the number of physical DMX ports.

 

I'm not quite sure I see the difference between the Congo and Hog examples, surely a cuestack with one cue is equivalent to a sub, hence what does a Congo do that a Hog doesn't?

There's an underlying difference between a cuestack with one cue and a submaster, as they permit different things - a Cuestack could have extra cues added afterwards or have 'goto cue 0' run on it (plus console-specific options), while a sub couldn't.

Congo can do either (put a Group on a Master and it's a classic sub), while Hog only has the option of single-cue cuestacks.

- Hog2 was probably a bad example, as we can't really capture the difference between the flexibilty of HTP Playbacks offered by Congo and Hog2 and crossfader-only playbacks offered by other consoles.

Do we not need Master Pages too?

Yes - you're quite right. I knew there would be something obvious I'd forgotten!

 

I assume you're proposing your fields as a complete replacement for what exists already?

Yes - a few 'changes of name', plus adding a couple of extra fields.

 

TBH most people buying Consoles will be willing to do the homework on what is available and get hands on experience of the programming/ operating of the desks. A good demo is far better than just comparisons.

But you need to start somewhere surely David? I'd hope people do their homework, but some threads come up a lot... :unsure:

Basically to give all the "What console should I buy" questions where they've done no research a simple place to quickly check, rather than the interminable threads suggesting one console after another, quite often including completely inappropriate answers.

 

Which reminds me of another possible item on the table: "Guide Price"

This would have to be limited to a short list of options - "<£200", "£200-1000", "£1000-£2000", "£2000-£4000", "£4000-£8000", ">£8,000" is probably enough.

- Primarily to stamp on the "I've got ten quid and I want a moving light desk with encoders and dual touchscreens" nonsense.

 

On the other hand, anybody spending more than a couple of grand probably wouldn't bother looking there at all - they'd go straight to their dealer for suggestions and demos, and then maybe ask here for opinions on the consoles on their shortlist.