Cheap Moving Heads

[Pete McCrea]

As others have said, don't worry about getting the ML's in school. I think it isn't a great idea for schools.

 

And don't worry about not having used ML's before you go to college to learn about using them. I went to University, but studied Civil Engineering, and have made it fine in the events industry, and have a fairly successful rental company. All my experience I gained when starting out was working for hire co's and when I used kit for church gigs. My school didn't even have a PA or lighting rig worth talking about!

 

So make the most of what you have, find local hire companies, theatres or Am Dram groups to learn the ropes with, and gain the all important practical experience.

[Davethsparky]

Sound in Gloucestershire: Good point, but that is only accurate if I take a lighting related course at college (not definite yet, only just doing my GCSEs!)

 

If the college owns moving lights and you have the opportunity to use them regardless of if you are taking a lighting course or not they should still teach you how to use them. If they own them but no-one is capable of teaching you how to use them then it is quite possible that they had fallen victim to a former student who persuaded them to buy them without proper consideration of the facts.

 

And moving lights aren't as unreliable as an earlier post suggested. Like anything else if they are decent quality units and they are properly serviced and maintained then they will do their job with very little trouble. If however they are low quality units or they get mistreated they are far more likely to become unreliable.

[neilalexrose]

Very off topic, but I'll answer it anyway. Mods feel free to move if you feel the need. CharlieH maybe a question or two in the next generation forum?

 

I am interested in trying to join a club / follow a professional / get work experience in a theatre e.t.c. to gain some more knowledge, but I can't find anywhere!! If anyone knows of any in the Hampshire area, I would greatly appreciate it (I have already tried Theatre 64!).

 

From Memory:

 

Princes Hall Aldershot, West end centre Aldershot, Farnham Maltings, Basingstoke theatres including the Anvil and Haymarket, New Victoria and Rhoda McGaw Theatre - Woking, Farnborough 6th form have a drama centre (if I recall), Camberley Theatre has a youth theatre. Queen Mary's college Basingstoke has a lot going on. Eurohire are based in Basingstoke, Wizard lighting are in Woking. Guildford isn't too far away - Yvonne Arnaud and Electric Theatres. Have you tried googling for hampshire theatres or lighting and sound companies, or even (dare I suggest it!) looking in your yellow pages for theatres, lighting and sound hire in your area? To say you can't find anything just shows you aren't trying!

 

Just a few of the places that were around when I grew up just down the road from you in Fleet. Lots of the above places have youth theatres, host amateur shows, run workshops (particularly the colleges). The theatres may or may not be able to have you for work experience.

 

Also if you google for Farnborough amateur dramatics, or Fleet amateur dramatics, or Aldershot amateur dramatics, etc, etc, etc you get the general idea, you never know, you might find something interesting......

 

Have a look through the venue brochures for the above venues, and see which amateur companies are putting on shows, and then do some searching and find some contact details.

 

I'm not going to do all the work for you, but there is lots of stuff out there, use your imagination when searching through google and other sources.

 

HTH neil

[TomHoward]

And moving lights aren't as unreliable as an earlier post suggested. Like anything else if they are decent quality units and they are properly serviced and maintained then they will do their job with very little trouble. If however they are low quality units or they get mistreated they are far more likely to become unreliable.

Unfortunately in a school the latter seems more likely - it's unlikely there'd be the budget allocation or expertise to maintain them properly, so unless competent technicians are employed on a permenant basis and proper running budgets are allocated it does seem that hire would be the best route to take.

[CharlieH]

Thankhou to everyone. I will start phonig around some am groups, and I start school tomorrow so I will speak to my HOD about this forum, and the other research I have and suggest hiring.

 

Thankhou to veryone who has posted, I need the information!!!

Charlie

[spartacus]

MLs require extensive programming (so you would need a desk that could handle it) and let me tell you that is not easy! They need constant maintenance and upkeep such as lamp replacements (which can be expensive). However saying that, I did have movers in on some occasions, but they were hired and not bought. You can get Mac 250 Entours for £30 a week here in the north so, in a cost effective sense, it would be better to hire as and when needed.

 

Yes, I completely agree with you in hiring in the gear when needed,

However, have you ever heard of a school who buys a Jands Vista T2 console, but only 48 generic fixtures?

[Martinman]

So Martinman let me get this right, you are handing out advice that moving lights are not necessary for a school immediately after telling us you have just persuaded your school to invest in two macs. Pot meet kettle?

 

I am handing out advice on the bassis that I dont think, they are absolute musts, and now the exitement has gone im letting him know. - of course, it really depends on how much you use them, and we use them more often than 4 times a year but nothing serious.- but why would we, when were a school ?

[paulears]

I like your honesty!

I am handing out advice on the bassis that I dont think

You got your school to invest in equipment they use more than four times a year, but not seriously - because it was exciting? Now your realise it isn't as exciting as you thought, you've changed your mind.

 

To be fair, it's not your fault. The fault is that of the teachers and management who allowed students to spend their limited budget on frivolous items that will never earn their keep.

[Martinman]

I like your honesty!

I am handing out advice on the bassis that I dont think

You got your school to invest in equipment they use more than four times a year, but not seriously - because it was exciting? Now your realise it isn't as exciting as you thought, you've changed your mind.

 

To be fair, it's not your fault. The fault is that of the teachers and management who allowed students to spend their limited budget on frivolous items that will never earn their keep.

 

The comma after the I dont think part was an accident.

 

The buget wasn't limeted there was £4000 set aside specificly for intelligent lighting. This wasnt my push or my involvement to decide this.

 

And on the contrary I think that the items will earn their keep as the 4 productions I mentioned are when they are used massivley, we use them in assemblys, award ceremonies and also hire them out. therefore making back the money.

[Ynot]

The buget wasn't limeted there was £4000 set aside specificly for intelligent lighting. This wasnt my push or my involvement to decide this.

 

And on the contrary I think that the items will earn their keep as the 4 productions I mentioned are when they are used massivley, we use them in assemblys, award ceremonies and also hire them out. therefore making back the money.

 

Whether they 'make their money back' is rather subjective.

 

OK - say for sake of argument that your school paid £1000 each for 4 Mac 250 Entours.

Let's also assume that each one gets the same treatment (good bad or otherwise) and is used for exactly the same length of time during a year.

 

Lamp life of around 3000hrs is always something to treat with a pinch of salt - especially with gear that gets moved around a lot (and as you say the school hires them out). Typical price for a replacement lamp from Google is around the £100 mark.

 

Servicing the fixtures - I have NO idea how much a service tech would charge to give an annual check 'n' lube job, (and I really doubt the school will have anyone with any decent exp to do it in-house). But let's give a conservative estimate at say £100 a unit per year.

 

Repairs - again difficult to quantify, but where kit is moved about a lot, you WILL eventually get damage, either to casings or internals. Cost of repairs is going to be significantly higher than servicing.

 

Hiring out - do the lanterns have flightcases? Because I seriously doubt it at £1k per unit. And if not, then that means MORE chance of the repair bills being higher due to transporting for hires (or even just for storage). Again, Google gives me about £300-£350 for a twin Entour case.

 

Weigh all that up against the averager cost of hiring a Mac 250 Entour for a week - £50 each.

You'd need to either use them or hire them out for a total of 25 weeks - half the year - to make just the money back on the actual lanterns.

Add, say, another 6 weeks to cover the flight case, 2 weeks for a spare lamp, 4 weeks for the annual service, etc etc etc.

We're now up to around 9 months hire....

 

I know it's not as simple as that, but it's not THAT far off.

 

This is why it's generally not a good idea for schools and small ventures to have things like moving lights.

 

We don't go overboard on discouraging this just for the hell of it! Many of us here have (dare I say) actual experience in managing budgets and departments, so are speaking with some weight on the matter - not just pouting hearsay or biassed opinion...

[Davethsparky]

Just to add to the earlier list of local venues, there is a new theatre being built at St Nicholas' school in church crookham. It will be available for hire to outside users (bookings are already coming in and we've only just started plastering!) so there could be the potential to get in with some of those groups who will be using it and get some experience in a fairly well equipped new venue (As a member of the team carrying out the technical installation I am a little biased on that point).

[david.elsbury]

I'm curious... how are you so confident that this new venue is going to be fantastically equipped technically, before it's been finished?

What if the venue encounters major problems and has to cut half it's LX budget because of unforseen construction costs? Any number of things could happen at this stage in the peice, it's a little early to be counting chickens before they've hatched IMO...

[Davethsparky]

I'm curious... how are you so confident that this new venue is going to be fantastically equipped technically, before it's been finished?

What if the venue encounters major problems and has to cut half it's LX budget because of unforseen construction costs? Any number of things could happen at this stage in the peice, it's a little early to be counting chickens before they've hatched IMO...

 

I do believe my actual words were "fairly well equipped" and that I followed this with a statement that my opinion was a biased one.

The LX budget won't be cut because there is no budget, there is a fixed price with signed contracts etc to support it.

[simschr]

You may wish to consider a training course, for example an introduction to moving lights - which cover the basics to get you startd.

[paulears]

I have recently persuaded my school to make the move to some movers.

 

This wasnt my push or my involvement to decide this.

 

You can't have it both ways You said YOU pursuaded them?