School sound system

[MoleMan]

I have been asked by a school what equipment they should be buying in terms of sound. Yes, their BRIEF really was the brief!

I have been looking at the Allen & Heath PA12 or PA12-CP, I am looking for a dual CD deck, case (for desk, CD deck, and possibly amp) and, depending on which mixer, possibly an amp suitable for running 4 speakers as well as suitable speakers. Does anybody have any suggestions to help a person lost in a massive world of products and retailers or any comment on the desk I have suggested?

[J Pearce]

For powerpoint in assemblies, or for lecturn mic at open evenings, or for the school musical, or sportsday on the field, or the rock band that want to do an afterschool gig?

 

There is soooo much range of potential use in schools that they need to be more specific.

[StevieR]

Hi Moleman, and welcome to the Blue Room.

 

In the first instance, I would suggest contacting 2 or 3 local audio suppliers and asking them to come in and take a look at the space and discuss options. This will help give you ideas and suggested equipment. You can then use that information to assist you decision making process.

 

Steve

[adamski1010]

I have to agree with StevieR, Installing a system into a school can be quite challenging. The system needs to be multipurpose, reliable and very easy to use. Also, if any of the school installs I've done are anything to go by, you will often be working in an acoustically challenging enviroment. You should really get a professional involved. Many installers have experience working in public buildings and will be able to tailor the system to your specs and budget. If you tell us where your located we could suggest a number of reputable companies near you.

 

Cheers

-a

[Russ83]

I quite often get asked to go and 'advise' schools that have saved up a bit of money and want to improve their AV systems but unless it is your business to install equipment I would strongly suggest you do not get yourself too involved, you may regret it later.

 

What I tend to do is sit down with the school and find out what they actually want the equipment to do, J Pearce mentions a few of the possibilities that schools manage to dream up but no one can do anything if they don't know what they want to achieve. I then try to take a look at the venues existing facilities (is power available in useful positions, is it possible to mount speaker brackets on the wall or how substantial does the roof look?) Again, don't start crawling around in roof voids but a little tap on the wall will tell you if it's plaster board or brick. You don't need to know this information but it should help you to get an idea in your head as to what could be done.

If a large ghetto blaster on wheels will do the job then yes by all means suggest a few possibilities and let them choose but for anything more complex I then go away and put together a specification and list everything that they need the system to do and also include 3 or 4 contact details for companies that should be capable of doing the work. If they are still daunted by this and want you to be involved then you set up a meeting with each of the companies for them to come and give a quote. You are basically there to make sure the company rep understands your specification and translate any technical speak back to the school. After the quotes have come back have another sit down with the school and explain exactly what they are getting and make sure that it still does what they wanted and you think it will do the job and work in a school environment (I find this normally requires at least a second site visit by the chosen company until everyone is happy).

 

Here are a few other notes I've picked up on my way when it comes to installs:

Out of politeness make sure you ring the other companies back and let them know you won't be using them this time.

Make sure there is someone in the school who is actually able to use (and ideally have a basic understanding of) everything that is on the quotation. No point in having a fantastic digital desk if the staff likely to use it can't turn their projectors off when they leave the room. (Remember that you may not always be there to help them.)

Are the school aware of all the running costs? (Licences for radio mics, spare lamps for lighting installs etc).

Keep a look out for the phrase 'By Others' in the quote and make sure you get separate quotes for this work (it could be power or structural reinforcement for example).

Most schools and organisations have no idea how much professional AV equipment costs. They can buy a CD player for £20 at Argos so how come the hall costs £20k?

Buying cheap equipment for schools is a very bad idea. Our music department got a small portable PA similar to this, it still kinda works after a year but I think something has blown inside as the volume is half what it use to be and I haven't the time to look at it. On the other hand we have three InterM amps that were installed 8 years ago, left on 24/7/365 and apart from installing a new cooling fan in each one they still work as new and get some very heavy use.

If something is not bolted down it will walk and similarly if there is a button or a knob it will be touched!

 

I hope this helps a little. It may not be what the school had in mind when they asked you but at the end of the day, professional companies have insurance against things going wrong where you as a student or even myself as a council employee do not hence why I only give advice in these situations.

[MoleMan]

They are in Leicestershire, but they are having a new building built in a few months so I am currently looking for hardware that can be most likely placed in a corner with 2 speakers on stands, and when the new building is built I will suggest having cabling for both mics and speakers put in as well as any necessary power. I am currently looking at, as I said:

Allen & Heath PA12;

Numark Dual CD decks;

Crown XLS-402 Power Amplifier

and am currently looking for a case that this will fit in; as well as 2 speakers with stands for mobile use, and use until the new building is ready; and either now or when the building is up 4 mounted speakers.

I chose this mixing deck as it provides enough channels and inputs to be extremely versatile for just one mic in an assembly to several mics and other inputs such as laptops for a show. I plan on teaching several members of staff to setup and use the equipment with the hope that these members of staff will understand everything enough to teach other people to use at least the simple functions for one or two mics and the CD decks (as long as no-one starts changing EQs and not knowing how to put them back to original, sliders for volume shouldn't be too complicated, although some one will always wan't to fiddle without knowing what they are doing).

At the moment I think the lighting is just going to be left until the new building is up so that sufficient supports and cabling can be installed with basically no disruption.

[J Pearce]

I can guarantee that someone WILL change the eq, or the gains, or the routing. It WILL happen.

 

My favourite is the turn everything up to full, including the pan control. "Makes it louder sir!"

[paulears]

You actually hit on the most important point. Can people actually work it. Is it so simple a dancer can make music come out? Does a technician become a MUST for the system you choose? How easy is it to destroy? Schools and colleges are able to wreck even simple kit by ignorance!

[revbobuk]

If (big if!) a system using speakers on stands is acceptable (Junior schools often don't like them because of the trip hazards), then the StagePAS 500 and the Fender Passport are also worth a look, as they will continue to be useful after a rebuild. The newest Passport doesn't come in a version with a built-in CD, but the older ones are often still available, and they do pack up very neatly. I've supplied these recently to a Leicester school.

[soundiesam]

Hey my suggestion would be for the stage pass they have a built in mixer in the back and by the sound of it you don't want anything to big and you can power two speakers from the built in mixer then you would only have to get your CD player!!

sam

[dbuckley]

My local school has a fixed install in the General Purpose Hall.

 

Its a small mixer (make forgotten, something like six mic channels and a couple of stereos), a QSC amp, a combo CD player / casette recorder, and four Fender speakers on the walls.

 

The school hates it; it never does anything useful.

 

Or more accurately they hated it until the caretaker and I spent an hour one night and I explained how to operate the system. He made notes. No matter what some idiot does to it, for the Assembly the sound is always clear and intelligible, 'cos the caretaker takes his cheat sheet and resets the mixer.

 

That piece of paper is now the most important component of the GP hall sound system.

[djw1981]

I hope they took multiple copies and laminated a copy and stuck it to the wall above the mixer, and a second copy glued elsewhere... as has been said, if it can go walkies it will...

[tommulliner]

My School has just had a new compact sound system for the main school hall.

 

It consists of a 12 Ch desk (not sure what make) With 4 Lapell mics and 4 Invisible mics with 2 handheilds, all wireless. A CD/DVD player and a laptop which suits all the needs that the hall is used for (except maybe major productions) We have had it for about three weeks now and have already used it for loads of things from assemblys for multi-cultural week, to GCSE drama preformaces. It is all on a compact flightcased trolly and is perfect for our needs.

[Bobbsy]

May I respectfully suggest that what's missing from this topic is a detailed specification of what you want this system to do? Long before you get to shopping lists of makes and models, that should be your starting point.

 

Sitting down and doing a spec like that focuses the mind greatly and will help a lot with your choices.

 

Once you know what your requirements are, THEN you can put that on paper and go to a number of reputable suppliers with an "RFP" (request for proposals). Get them to not just list gear but also explain (either in writing or at a meeting) the rationale behind what they're suggesting.

 

Frankly, the choice between one model of mixer or another or the brand of amp is just detail. Getting the system to do what you need is the much harder part.

 

Bob

[Pattern123]

Second vote for the Fender Passport. I was dubious when I got here and saw it, but we now have two and they are very useful all round the school for various stuff, and yes, even Dancers and the Music Dept can use it!! I don't use it as a system for performances in the main hall though and wouldn't 'install' one. But a great stop-gap, also used for Sports Day!